Hawaii first state to ban plastic grocer bags

[DireWolfSpirit]

Huffpost article here- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/01/hawaii-plastic-bag-ban_n_7702382.html

I'd like to see this trend go national with a wave of other states adopting the ban.

I shop at Aldi's often and they have the reuseable bag policy. You bring your own bag, no plastic or paper handed out. It's so simple to just leave a foldable, reuseable bag in the backseat or trunk. And it really is a good idea to try and limit all this unnecessary plasic pollution societies are plagueing Mother Earth with.

[Jo498]

Interestingly, in Germany plastic bags have had a bad rap since 30 or more years ago. (One of the earliest publicly visible environmental actions I remember was to sell or give out sturdy shopping bags made from jute fibre with the slogan "Jute statt Plastik").

But despite decades of denigration plastic bags are still not banned. One has to pay (about 10 cents or so) in the supermarket for a real plastic bag but the small flimsy ones for fruit or vegetables are free (and I read that these are the worst if they get into water or where animals might eat them) and so are bigger ones when you go shopping for clothes. Even in the latter case you are always asked if you want a bag so you can be environmentally friendly and refuse or bring your own.

[Arkhangel]

I'm in favour of plastic bag bans, we have one where I come from in Australia and most supermarkets here in Geneva don't give out plastic bags. I'd also be on board with charging for plastic bags, so long as it was costly enough to effectively deter people - say 50 cents a bag, and that money then goes to an environmental cause.

[The BlackBear]

Scotland there's a 5p charge for a bag and you have to ask for it specifically.

[Liffguard]

I admit to being a habitual user of plastic bags even though I know I really shouldn't. I'd have no problem with a ban in the UK. People would grumble for a little while then adapt.

[The BlackBear]

It's fine when you know you're going shopping, the only real issue is when you weren't planning but realised you needed to buy some things.

[HexMachina]

Scotland there's a 5p charge for a bag and you have to ask for it specifically.

When my friend from Aberdeen came to visit me in London last year she was surprised that at the self service till in Sainsburys I could just help myself to carrier bags. "Don't you have to pay for those?"

I've got the reusable bags now though, wouldn't be too bothered by a ban in the UK, only thing I would need to remember is to take a reusable bag when I go clothes shopping

[Solmyr]

An alternative needs to be available for any ban of plastic bags to make sense. Also, a 1-2 euro normal bag is not an alternative to a 5-10 cent* plastic bag. The argument seems to be that people need to reuse their more expensive bags, but this just doesn't work in practice - shopping is a spontaneous activity and people can't be expected to walk around with bags all the time just in case. Bags need to be available and their prices need to be affordable.

*price is still inflated due to environment laws, the actual production cost of a plastic bag is <1 cent

The other baffling phenomenon I've seen is expensive stores not offering free bags with purchases. I don't expect a grocery store to give me free bags with purchase, but two weeks ago I went to buy household appliances worth ~200 euro. After having received an invoice and paid in cash I was baffled when the cashier slid the pile of boxes towards me, clearly not intending to even offer me a bag. When I asked for one, she told me "10 cents please". Had to put that on a separate invoice too, because the previous one had already been issued. When you're selling stuff worth hundreds and not offering bags for free, hell, not offering bags at all, you're going to lose customers. It's the straw that breaks the camel's bag.

[TrueMetis]

An alternative needs to be available for any ban of plastic bags to make sense. Also, a 1-2 euro normal bag is not an alternative to a 5-10 cent* plastic bag. The argument seems to be that people need to reuse their more expensive bags, but this just doesn't work in practice - shopping is a spontaneous activity and people can't be expected to walk around with bags all the time just in case. Bags need to be available and their prices need to be affordable.

Picking up a drink or something might be, never have I spontaneously bought enough things that I would need a bag. And I find it odd anyone would.

[mormont]

An alternative needs to be available for any ban of plastic bags to make sense. Also, a 1-2 euro normal bag is not an alternative to a 5-10 cent* plastic bag. The argument seems to be that people need to reuse their more expensive bags, but this just doesn't work in practice - shopping is a spontaneous activity and people can't be expected to walk around with bags all the time just in case.

Why not?

I do exactly this, and did even before the recent legislation BlueBear refers to. I have a reusable bag specifically designed to fold up neatly - it takes no more space in my jacket pocket than a small notebook would. It cost me 10p.

[Solmyr]

Picking up a drink or something might be, never have I spontaneously bought enough things that I would need a bag. And I find it odd anyone would.

When I leave home in the morning I am never sure if I'll be doing grocery shopping after work. It depends on when my workday ends, how tired I am, what arrangements for going out I happen to make during the day, etc. Even on weekends you can go out to do something else, than find yourself in a proximity of a grocery store on the way home and decide to be efficient by doing some shopping.

I have a reusable bag specifically designed to fold up neatly - it takes no more space in my jacket pocket than a small notebook would. It cost me 10p.

You are aware there are latitudes where people don't wear jackets for several months of the year? My jeans pockets are already strained from phone, wallet, keys. If I put a bag in them as well, I might as well just take them off and put them in the bag instead - would be more comfortable that way.

People don't buy plastic bags because they secretly hate the environment, they do it out of convenience and to save money - often a reusable bag alternative is not even available in some stores, making the choice predetermined. If an alternative to the plastic bag that is also cheap is developed, people will have no problem switching to it.

[zelticgar]

We have local bans here in Massachusetts. The town next to me is a major hippy enclave so they were able to push it through pretty easily. The grocery stores sell the canvas bags for .05 cents now. They also offer paper bags but you need to almost argue with the employees to get them. There is no option to get a plastic bag. Everyone was freaking out about it at first but after a week or two people were able to transition with no problems. We already had a ton of those canvas bags laying around the house so we just put them in the cars so we have them available any time we are out.

My wife does most of the shopping for us but the first time I went I forgot to bring the bags in so i just had them put the food back in the cart with no bags. They did not like it but now that's how I do it every time I shop. I put the food in bags once I get to the car.

My view on the whole thing is that we were able to adjust very quickly and it is no big deal.


I was kind of fascinated with the whole process. There was a few interesting offshoots of controversies that popped up over it:

1. The dog hippies got mad at the plastic bag hippies because they would no longer have plastic bags to pick up dog poop. The anti-dog and mommy crowds then got mad because they just knew the dog owners would let their dogs shit all over town and little Johnny was going to step in dog shit on the way to school. I think they ended up putting plastic bag dispensers around town so the dog owners could pick up poop.

2. The plastic bag hippies felt so empowered by getting the bag ban pushed through that they got over confident and tried to push it through in a few of the more blue collar towns next to it and were quickly shot down. It became pretty clear that they were not going to be successful because they were able to push it through on the stealth. Now that the word was out people mobilized to save their bags.

3. The Anti-plastic bag ban people threatened to boycott shopping in the town but from what i can tell the grocery stores are just as busy as they were before the bag.

4. I use plastic bags a lot. Some unique uses include:
- Putting them on my feet to get my wetsuit on more easily
- I also put them on my feet while hiking - two plastic bags and rubber bands lets me keep my sandals on when hiking in the rain.
- I usually cook 3 or 4 rotisserie chickens in a week and i use the bags to put chicken stock in them.
- Puke bags for road trips with the kids
- I'm a major germ-phoebe so anytime trash is laying around I use them to pick up said trash so I don't have to touch trash.


It is not a big deal right now because i can get bags whenever I want but once the bans go statewide it will suck because I'll probably just have to buy ziploc bags to use as replacements for my use of plastic bags.

[mormont]

You are aware there are latitudes where people don't wear jackets for several months of the year? My jeans pockets are already strained from phone, wallet, keys. If I put a bag in them as well, I might as well just take them off and put them in the bag instead - would be more comfortable that way.

I can manage without a jacket, too, just fine. Phone, keys, wallet, change, bag, plus one or two other bits and pieces. In any case, 'oh my jeans pockets are strained!' is a really, really weak argument against a policy that cuts plastic bag use by 90%. Huge environmental bonus or slight inconvenience to people wearing jeans? Not a real stumper of a dilemma in public policy terms, that one.

People don't buy plastic bags because they secretly hate the environment, they do it out of convenience and to save money

Yes. So we need to change that, even if it means a slight inconvenience or a minimal cost.

often a reusable bag alternative is not even available in some stores, making the choice predetermined. If an alternative to the plastic bag that is also cheap is developed, people will have no problem switching to it.

I'm carrying one now. That was my point. They're available all over the place, because the legislation created a demand.

[lessthanluke]

Picking up a drink or something might be, never have I spontaneously bought enough things that I would need a bag. And I find it odd anyone would.

Really? I decide to do some shopping while I'm already out quite regularly.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I use my plastic grorcery bags for cat litter disposal. My wife prefers to use paper bags for litter. I see it is six of one and a half dozen of another. Once paper is inside a landfill and cut off from oxygen as I understand it it lasts for eons and as such isn't any different from plastic but is more difficult to get the litter in the bag because the mouth of the bag is smaller than the plastic bags.

[Arkhangel]

You are aware there are latitudes where people don't wear jackets for several months of the year? My jeans pockets are already strained from phone, wallet, keys. If I put a bag in them as well, I might as well just take them off and put them in the bag instead - would be more comfortable that way.

:lol:

There's a part of me that really wants to make a joke about, fuck the environment because male privilege, god forbid men have to carry bags around with them during the day like practically all women do - but there's also a much bigger part of me that doesn't even want to open that can of worms with someone who would in all seriousness claim, fuck the environment because god forbid he have to carry a bag. That seems like an irritating exercise in futility.

[Filippa Eilhart]

4. I use plastic bags a lot. Some unique uses include:

- I usually cook 3 or 4 rotisserie chickens in a week and i use the bags to put chicken stock in them.

- Puke bags for road trips with the kids

don't they have holes? I'm pretty sure the bags in shops over here wouldn't fit for these two purposes.

In Luxembourg plastic bags are cheap (I think it's 3 cents) and they're not sturdy enough for any sort of big shopping. We have reusable bags for supermarket shopping but when I go to the little shop next to my work I just buy a plastic bag and reuse it as a bin bag.

[zelticgar]

don't they have holes? I'm pretty sure the bags in shops over here wouldn't fit for these two purposes.

Yes they do tend to have small holes so a lot of times I double up on them just in case. Maybe one out of 3 has no holes so the odds are in my favor as long as I use multiple bags. The puke catcher usually works with 2 bags but with the chicken stock I'll use three bags just to be safe. I cook them in the crock pot so there tends to be a lot of liquid at the bottom.

:lol:

There's a part of me that really wants to make a joke about, fuck the environment because male privilege, god forbid men have to carry bags around with them during the day like practically all women do - but there's also a much bigger part of me that doesn't even want to open that can of worms with someone who would in all seriousness claim, fuck the environment because god forbid he have to carry a bag. That seems like an irritating exercise in futility.

Now that this can of worms is opened I have to say that while Solmyr may come off as a little insensitive to the plight of women you may want to re-read the post and consider he was kind of joking around. Your outrage may be a little overblown. I think his larger point is that having to carry bags in warmer environments, particularly in areas where people are not accustom to driving around a lot it is going to require a cultural change. I can assure Solymr that while it may seem like a pain he would likely adapt pretty quickly. I'm the biggest creature of habit I know and I was able to move on with life pretty easily after one visit to the store.

[HexMachina]

Yes they do tend to have small holes so a lot of times I double up on them just in case. Maybe one out of 3 has no holes so the odds are in my favor as long as I use multiple bags. The puke catcher usually works with 2 bags but with the chicken stock I'll use three bags just to be safe. I cook them in the crock pot so there tends to be a lot of liquid at the bottom.

Now that this can of worms is opened I have to say that while Solmyr may come off as a little insensitive to the plight of women you may want to re-read the post and consider he was kind of joking around. Your outrage may be a little overblown. I think his larger point is that having to carry bags in warmer environments, particularly in areas where people are not accustom to driving around a lot it is going to require a cultural change. I can assure Solymr that while it may seem like a pain he would likely adapt pretty quickly. I'm the biggest creature of habit I know and I was able to move on with life pretty easily after one visit to the store.

Doesn't really require a culture change though. As Mormont said, these bags fit perfectly well into your pockets. The minor inconvenience of "Oh it strains my jeans!" Is just petty and stubborn as an excuse

[zelticgar]

Not really Helena. not sure if Mormont has access to different bags but the ones we are provided as replacements for plastic are definitely more substantial than the plastic bags. Here is a link to the types of bags they sell in my area. I actually just tried to fold one up and put it in my pocket and it is possible but not comfortable. It pretty much takes up all the space and I am not someone who wears hippster skinny jeans. If I had to walk around and knew I might shop I would probably just throw a couple of bags into a backpack versus trying to stuff those canvas bags in my pocket.

One of the things I that bugs be about these small changes is the lack of tact people use when messaging why these changes are important. I personally tend to react a lot better to someone emphasizing with concerns versus taking a position that those concerns are a symptom of pettiness or lack of caring. There are some arguments and concerns about loss of convenience that can easily be addressed without being dismissive.