Who created The Wall and why.

[A Faceless Poster]

All of the old races are dying out. Their fight is against extinction, as Mance and the wildlings were becoming increasingly more numerous and organized. Just look at what's happening to the COTF and the giants. It's also why they have never once marched in force, instead using the cold and wights.

I like this idea, because then the march of the others is kind of like the last march of the ents! Men have cut down too many trees and the Others make their last march because there is no curse in the true tongue for this treachery. 

[slant]

TWoIAF

has a description of who built the wall. It wasn't the Others. It wasn't Bran The Builder. 

[spoiler]Whether the legends are true or not, it is plain that the First Men and the children of the forest (and even the giants, if we take the word of the singers) feared something enough that it drove them to begin raising the Wall. And this great construction, as simple as it is, is justly accounted among the wonders of the world. It may be that its earliest foundations were of stone —the maesters differ in this—but now all that can be seen for a distance of a hundred leagues is ice. Nearby lakes provided the material, which the First Men cut into huge blocks and hauled upon sledges to the Wall, and worked into place one by one.[/spoiler]

[StannisTheMannisKingOfSwag]

TWoIAF

has a description of who built the wall. It wasn't the Others. It wasn't Bran The Builder. 

[spoiler]Whether the legends are true or not, it is plain that the First Men and the children of the forest (and even the giants, if we take the word of the singers) feared something enough that it drove them to begin raising the Wall. And this great construction, as simple as it is, is justly accounted among the wonders of the world. It may be that its earliest foundations were of stone —the maesters differ in this—but now all that can be seen for a distance of a hundred leagues is ice. Nearby lakes provided the material, which the First Men cut into huge blocks and hauled upon sledges to the Wall, and worked into place one by one.[/spoiler]

 

You have a point there.

 

But TWoIAF is written from a maester's perspective and we know that maesters lie when it Comes to telling history.

Maesters are a very unreliable source. Plus they werent around when the wall was build so they can not possible know

who build it.

And the maesters hate and deny the existence of Magic, just like maester Luwin always takes Old Nan's Story for fairy tales. Even though Old Nan is always right in her Storys.

 

Personaly i like the theory that the wall was build by the others, just makes sence and it provides a more interesting mystery surrounding the whole Business of the wall.

Seriously, when reading the books one soon takes the wall for granted. Just another Setting in the Storyline. But when you really think about it. Such a huge Long wall made of ice is just insane by any human Standards. Plus the wall has Magic weirwood doors. Another proof of Magic and maybe a hint that the CoTF also had a Hand in crrafting this massive monstrosity.

[Dan slayer of hot pies]

what if the wall at its base is the strange black oily stone

[The Dragon has three heads]

I think it likely the first men had help.
You cannot trust a maester.

[Lordsteve666]

But if all the castles along the wall (some of which have very old foundations) are on the southern side it makes no sense for that to be the "outer" side of the wall.
The thing is a defensive structure and whatever is "attacking" is on the northern side of it. That means it's unlikely to be the Others that built it.

The biggest mystery is why it's so damned high. Why does it need to be so tall, what the hell is attacking that you need a 700 foot high wall to keep at bay!
Just look at the Great Wall of China, it's nowhere near as high as the wall in these stories but yet it did a perfectly good job at defending the part of China it surrounded.
The sheer size of the structure seems out of place.

[carltheslayer84]

what if the wall at its base is the strange black oily stone

That would be interesting.

[The Dragon has three heads]

But if all the castles along the wall (some of which have very old foundations) are on the southern side it makes no sense for that to be the "outer" side of the wall.
The thing is a defensive structure and whatever is "attacking" is on the northern side of it. That means it's unlikely to be the Others that built it.

The biggest mystery is why it's so damned high. Why does it need to be so tall, what the hell is attacking that you need a 700 foot high wall to keep at bay!
Just look at the Great Wall of China, it's nowhere near as high as the wall in these stories but yet it did a perfectly good job at defending the part of China it surrounded.
The sheer size of the structure seems out of place.

Uh...

The hordes of undead and Others riding pale spiders big as hounds?

[Ser Knute]

I realize the topic is WHO built The Wall... and in that vein I think the excerpt above is probably the closest to accurate (i.e., the COTF, First Men and Giants).

 

However, I've been wondering about a few things.

 

As far as a pact is concerned... I can see the Others being granted the LOAW and perhaps the area north of the Wall in general, but... how then did the Wildlings come to inhabit that area?  

 

There seems to be something deeper behind the sacrifices from Craster.  Firstly, the language barrier; was it not an issue?  Or, was it possibly the case that Craster didn't need to 'communicate' verbally with the Others and instead knew something that has been lost/forgotten/ignored from the rest of mankind, or at the least the NW and/or the Starks?

 

Why must there be a Stark in Winterfell always?

 

The other strange thing is that even if we can theorize to some degree that "a Pact" was broken and this is what's causing the Others to stir; what's causing them to seemingly go beyond getting what was agreed to?  Meaning, if the pact was to offer sacrifices to the Others via young male human children, why now then are the Others seemingly going beyond 'recompense' or seemingly going far beyond having the agreement enforced?  Was it simply due to Craster's death?  Does it have anything to do with the Starks at all?  Then we also have to wonder, what happened in the time before Craster, was there someone else who was offering up sacrifices to the Others?  

 

If their 'goal' is to simply cover the world in psuedo darkness and freezing temperatures, then there seems to be no need for a pact at all from the human perspective.

[Dizzy Walker]

Crazy theories, probably old and worn out coming your way. I am fairly new to this site.

 

 Could the Valyrians have helped build it? I am not sure on time lines if it is possible...

 

Strong flying dragons with fire and a people with strong magics, sounds like a civilization that could help

build a big wall in cold weather. They wouldn't have to live there any length of time, and flying to and from Valyria would be long, but not impossible.

  and they might have a good reason to keep icy creatures away from the world..side note, maybe the reason they didn't stay in Westeros at that time maybe it was known at that time being close  to the magic of the Others would make their dragons weak, knowledge that maybe was lost after the Doom...and why the poor things died out with time in Westeros when they did...

 

 the Others and the Red Priest/Priestess God R'hllor side might be more opposites then we realize.

The red priestess radiate heat, Melisandre is always warm to be around, while it is possible the cold from the walkers/wrights is then sucking the magic/heat out of their surroundings making everything so cold, or maybe it's the feel of the absence of heat/magic.

 

When the red priest/priestess resurrect someone, they resurrect with only one person, but that person comes back with their memories and possibly their soul .The walkers can resurrect (if that is the word for it) many beings but they don't come back with as much of the person.

 

   If they are close to being direct opposites, maybe while the Red God has fire dragons, Maybe the Others have a very powerful creature up North, or a horde of individually less powerful but scary as a whole, creatures.  Like Daenerys, maybe they have a hard time trying to control them..Could the Walkers actually be the above the wall magical version of the Nights Watch, trying to contain them on the other side of the Wall? (Side note, could the Valyerians have been the Night Watch against the Red God.) Each group trying to keep the Red God and the Others apart.  Maybe the Walkers helped buid the wall for the good of all, and/or balance? maybe it's not the creature at all, but the Other's god they try to contain..

 

  Maybe some of the original walkers were human, volunteering to become a creature of cold, so they would be able to work/deal with some kind of cold/ice threat, instead of dying from it? Maybe like the Watch, they dwindled without more volunteers..taking what they could get, like the Watch taking criminals, the Others have to take babies from a crazy man. More recently,losing the manpower to contain the treat, maybe they are fleeing or trying to reach out, ask for help. making signs they hope someone will recognize..

 

  and I would guess that the Fire God and the Others were as far from each other as possible, one it the north and one in Asshai where the Red God R'hllor religion started. Maybe once the red priest started spreading out toward Westeros using their fire magic, it messed up the balance of magic /treaty, making it harder to contain what it is above the North...

 

I am fascinated too, with why a Stark needs to be in Winterfell. Could it maybe be not the Starks themselves needed there, but the uniquely colored Valerian sword Ice that they carried?

 

 and if all that is  completely wrong... maybe the Others are moving south now, because they have their own prophecy, their own version of Azor Ahai to find....wow,   who would that be?

 

  one last thing, if there was some kind of pact with the Others, First Men,Valyrians,Children and other groups to build the Wall, they most likely would have needed some kind of trade and ships while it was being build... the Ironborn are thought to be First men...Could the Ironborn have been First men that helped with building the Wall but they worked with ships and trade, and eventually integrated the What is dead, may never die philosophy. If you have seen Pirates of the Carribean, the "dead pirates" can walk on the bottom of the water..maybe if the Walkers don't freeze the water solid, they can to...Would explain their Drowned God and where they go when they die,.. yeah, crazy idea...sorry

[joluoto2]

Well, whether Valyria helped build the wall we have an easy answer: No. Valyria didn't exist yet (yes, it's that old).

 

Heck, do we know for sure the Wall actually was built AFTÈR the Long Night, considering we have no good date for the Long Night at all. Would be a great twist if it actually predated the Long Night.

[Leonardo]

The wall is 1/3 ice, 1/3 stone, and 1/3 metal. Since neither the Children or others work metal, it only leaves men imo. Also the wall is a very ambitious project, and that is a quality of men and not the old races.

[Rippounet]

But if all the castles along the wall (some of which have very old foundations) are on the southern side it makes no sense for that to be the "outer" side of the wall.
The thing is a defensive structure and whatever is "attacking" is on the northern side of it. That means it's unlikely to be the Others that built it.

It's far from certain that all the castles are as old as the Wall. In fact, as far as I know, even the Nightfort isn't necessarily 8000 years old.

The history we have is very vague and very mysterious. The Black Gate is also very intriguing, as it is obviously magical in nature.

Even assuming the history we have is correct and the Wall as it is was raised by men to protect aginst the Others, it's always possible that a smaller wall marked the border before.

That being said...

 

The biggest mystery is why it's so damned high. Why does it need to be so tall, what the hell is attacking that you need a 700 foot high wall to keep at bay!
Just look at the Great Wall of China, it's nowhere near as high as the wall in these stories but yet it did a perfectly good job at defending the part of China it surrounded.
The sheer size of the structure seems out of place.

Maybe Martin made the wall too high.

 

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C92

The Wall is filmed in a quarry in Ireland. There's basically this huge cliff, and the section used for the wall is painted white. There is a working elevator built to go up the side of the cliff (I mean, the one in the book and show). The quarry drops towards the centre where there is a lake where water collects. The first time there, GRRM looked up the side of this huge cliff and asked someone what the depth was from the top of the cliff to the bottom of the quarry, and was told "400 feet". And he said he looked up again and said, "Shit, I made the wall too high."

The quote is ambiguous though, since George could have just been commenting on the difficulty of recreating the Wall for the show.

 

I personally believe the Wall was raised with Ice magic. But then, I also believe humans had (or have) the ability to wield ice magic. Either the Others or humans may have made it, especially if giants helped.

[Ziester]

The wall is 1/3 ice, 1/3 stone, and 1/3 metal. Since neither the Children or others work metal, it only leaves men imo. Also the wall is a very ambitious project, and that is a quality of men and not the old races.

 

Where are you getting the 1/3rd thing from? Also the giants are credited with helping Bran the Builder build it so I don't see why we would rule them out and men aren't likely the builders of the oily black stones so elder races could probably build monumental structures.

[mediterraneo]

People with this kind of questions should really really take a look at the (first pages of the) Heresy thread.

 

Really!

[I Dream of Dragons]

I've heard the theory that the CoTF, giants, First Men and the Others came to an accord at the end of the Long Night, ceding part of the North to the Others and all of them working together to build the Wall to mark the border. The theory went that the Others are causing mischief because the wildlings being on their side of the Wall breaks the peace treaty. The problem with this theory is why the Others invaded in the first place and why they waited around 8000 years to enforce the treaty and drive the wildlings from their lands.

 

But given that the Wall is made of ice, has magic woven into it and GRRM said the Others can do magical, wondrous things with ice that nobody else can, there is some possibility that the Others had a hand in making it.

Is it possible that they're pissed because the Wildlings have continued to not only encroach but, encroach without paying tribute? The exception being Craster who they obviously don't bother? This is my first time posting but, I've been a long time lurker and this subject seems to be popping again everywhere.