aDanceWithFlagons Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Why do you dismiss all the candidates for Jon's parents? Have you guys ever seriously looked into anything but R + L? I ask because I have rarely read any serious discussion over Jon's parentage here except for the R + L. The comments i read on this thread says every other consideration is dismissed for no other reason than most of you have not tried, and by the comments above I see I am close to the mark. Disclaimer:It is not my intention to lump everyone in rlj land together. I am referincing the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of Ghost Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Ran already challenged anyone for 100$.Then I sure others will also take the bet if they want to bet themselves if the theory is true or not. Like I said before its a win-win situation, the feeling of vindication of having the theory turn out to be true or a charity gets a donation to help them continue to work. Will you place a bet with yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Then I sure others will also take the bet if they want to bet themselves if the theory is true or not. Like I said before its a win-win situation, the feeling of vindication of having the theory turn out to be true or a charity gets a donation to help them continue to work. Will you place a bet with yourself? I too bet 100$ that R+L=J is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Know what's weird? Whenever people have FINALLY found the 'real' parentage of Jon Snow, rather than Lyanna and Rhaeger, and we ask them to show it to us, see their 'evidence' for it, to explain to us how they came to that conclusion, they just never post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of Ghost Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I too bet 100$ that R+L=J is true.Oh good! Just remember though if you are right you only get the feeling of vindication and not any monetary gain! If you are wrong the charity gets the donation!:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsonsmile Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 So people love the idea of R+L=J because it almost sounds like a fairy tale but as we all know there are a lot of theories. One's that are vague and others that seem very close to what might actually have happened. Suffice it to any possibilities that aren't to far off the mark are true contenders for what really occurred. Now bear in mind that even if it isn't true the fact that it seems possible means its just as likely. So here's my theory, Brandon stark is Jon's father. Now here's why. Whenever Lyanna is mentioned most of the time Rhaegar is too but so is Brandon. We know that Brandon was a born leader and great swordsmen just like Jon. Though Rhaegar is handsome its also mentioned that Brandon is to, and since blood tells it adds to the fact that Jon looks like a true northern. Therefore he inherited his looks either from his father Brandon or his mother Lyanna. Now Eddard never refers to Jon as a son but as his blood, and knowing just how honorable a man he is. Allows me to think that he would never betray someones trust. Take into account Brandon's enjoyment in taking maidenheads and the close relationship he had with his sister. One might think that Brandon began a secret relationship with Lyanna at the tourney out of jealousy. Which continued up into the point in which she was abducted. Rhaegar probably knowing what it means to be born of incest sympathized and agree's to help her child. Here is something to remember Brandon left his fiance to go after his sister, which tells us that he loves her. Knowing that nothing is as it appears and GRRM penchant for family drama, tells me it's possible. Also other than the Targaryens being born of incest I don't see any body being all right with incest which is why I believe she confided in Rhaegar and made Ned promise. Seeing how mad Brandon was at Rhaegar tells us that he would have done anything for his sister thus his reason for wanting his sister back. I mean his love for her is not without question but Rhaegar's can be open to interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Oh good! Just remember though if you are right you only get the feeling of vindication and not any monetary gain! If you are wrong the charity gets the donation! :) I am willing to donate the gain to anywhere the challenger agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I see Brandon Stark's sperm is time-travelling again. ;) You cannot father children when you're dead. Technically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of Ghost Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I already donated 10$ each to the two charities mentioned in the previous thread. One was the Wild Spirit Wolf Sanctuary and the other was the Food Depot In Sante Fe. I wish I could donate more but alas I am a poor college student haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsonsmile Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I see Brandon Stark's sperm is time-travelling again. ;) You cannot father children when you're dead. Technically. the timeline is vague at best so don't be to quick to judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 So people love the idea of R+L=J because it almost sounds like a fairy tale but as we all know there are a lot of theories. One's that are vague and others that seem very close to what might actually have happened. Suffice it to any possibilities that aren't to far off the mark are true contenders for what really occurred. Now bear in mind that even if it isn't true the fact that it seems possible means its just as likely. So here's my theory, Brandon stark is Jon's father. Now here's why. Whenever Lyanna is mentioned most of the time Rhaegar is too but so is Brandon. We know that Brandon was a born leader and great swordsmen just like Jon. Though Rhaegar is handsome its also mentioned that Brandon is to, and since blood tells it adds to the fact that Jon looks like a true northern. Therefore he inherited his looks either from his father Brandon or his mother Lyanna. Now Eddard never refers to Jon as a son but as his blood, and knowing just how honorable a man he is. Allows me to think that he would never betray someones trust. Take into account Brandon's enjoyment in taking maidenheads and the close relationship he had with his sister. One might think that Brandon began a secret relationship with Lyanna at the tourney out of jealousy. Which continued up into the point in which she was abducted. Rhaegar probably knowing what it means to be born of incest sympathized and agree's to help her child. Here is something to remember Brandon left his fiance to go after his sister, which tells us that he loves her. Knowing that nothing is as it appears and GRRM penchant for family drama, tells me it's possible. Also other than the Targaryens being born of incest I don't see any body being all right with incest which is why I believe she confided in Rhaegar and made Ned promise. Seeing how mad Brandon was at Rhaegar tells us that he would have done anything for his sister thus his reason for wanting his sister back. I mean his love for her is not without question but Rhaegar's can be open to interpretation.The bolded is self contradictory, and a bit nonsensical. Anything that isn't ruled out entirely is equally likely to be true? That's absurd on its face. Theories which have more evidence to support them are more likely to be true than ones that don't... I don't feel like I am going on on a limb here. An incest relationship between Lyanna and Brandon is nowhere suggested in the text, so that is not very likely to be true. Theories which are pulled from imagination and not the text are usually not true. The only theories which deserve respect as a credible theory must come from the text, and be supported by quotes form the text. Without that, what are we talking about? Thing is, Martin doesn't pull anything out of his ass. Everything is foreshadowed. So, if you have a "what if?" idea about anything at all - say Brandon and Lyanna incest - all you have to do is read over the text where either is mentioned and look for clues. If something happened, there WILL be clues there. If you can't find any, they your hypothesis is probably wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsonsmile Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 The bolded is self contradictory, and a bit nonsensical. Anything that isn't ruled out entirely is equally likely to be true? That's absurd on its face. Theories which have more evidence to support them are more likely to be true than ones that don't... I don't feel like I am going on on a limb here.An incest relationship between Lyanna and Brandon is nowhere suggested in the text, so that is definitely not very likely to be true. Theories which are pulled from imagination and not the text are usually not true.Sorry friend what book have you been reading? We all know that incest is a possibility and the fact of the matter is they were close. Now just because I come up with a theory doesn't mean you have to agree with it. However any educated guess would have to correlate with the text which seems to be pointing us in the direction of Rhaegar or Brandon. I think your having trouble with what I said about possibility. It's possible to say that Brandon is the father, it's impossible to say that Stannis is the father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 the timeline is vague at best so don't be to quick to judge Still "a year"* is always significantly longer than a human pregnancy. By three months precisely. No way. Sorry. *) "a year": The war had raged for close to a year.AGoT 12 Eddard II When the war started, Brandon had been dead for at least the time it takes for the message from King's Landing to the Eyrie. Ned found it hard to imagine what could frighten Stannis Baratheon, who had once held Storm's End through a year of siege, [...]AGoT 27 Eddard VI This year of siege has to fit somewhere into the above "close to a year". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 the timeline is vague at best so don't be to quick to judge I am not quick to judge. You're not the first one to have brought up Brandon as Jon's father, and you won't be the last one. It is every clear, however, that Brandon dies before the war officially starts and the banners are called, that the war lasted for a year-ish (minus Dragonstone), and that a human only has a gestation time of 9 months. Lyanna died in her birthing bed (at the end of that year of battling), and she had a fever. She can only last so long after the baby is born with that (puerperal) fever. Robb and Jon are pretty much the same age, give or take a few weeks, perhaps, but not months. We know when Catelyn got pregnant of Robb, which was during the war, more in the beginning (was it the third month in?). Jon must have been made around that time, too. Hence Jon was made months after Brandon Stark died. And hence his sperm not time-travelling. :P (If anyone who has the time line down better than me - because I'm not the expert on this - wants to explain better, please do.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 Sorry friend what book have you been reading? We all know that incest is a possibility and the fact of the matter is they were close. Now just because I come up with a theory doesn't mean you have to agree with it. However any educated guess would have to correlate with the text which seems to be pointing us in the direction of Rhaegar or Brandon. I think your having trouble with what I said about possibility. It's possible to say that Brandon is the father, it's impossible to say that Stannis is the father. So Brandon and Lyanna committed an abominable sin, and Ned erects statues for them? Rather peculiar. And he keeps an abomination born of that union at his home, never hinting towards anything like it? Also, upon learning about the twincest, he never reminiscences that his own sibling did the same? Even more peculiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Must say it's a bit weird to me when I see a theory that has sibling incest in the Stark family questioned, and the answer to that questioning is 'what book have you been reading'? Lol. Must say that my - granted - one read of the series didn't seem to have hints toward Stark sibling incest in the previous generation, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Snow Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Know what's weird? Whenever people have FINALLY found the 'real' parentage of Jon Snow, rather than Lyanna and Rhaeger, and we ask them to show it to us, see their 'evidence' for it, to explain to us how they came to that conclusion, they just never post it. The answer I saw the most was: It is not yet finished, they are still researching the intricate details. Details that never ever see the light of day. Or when they do post what it is, it just falls apart under scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Must say it's a bit weird to me when I see a theory that has sibling incest in the Stark family questioned, and the answer to that questioning is 'what book have you been reading'? No, that line actually came from the very poster who brought up the Brandon Stark sibling incest a few 7 posts earlier. But funny still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Just wanted to say I know that. ;) Perhaps something about what I said was unclear. It's okay, though. I was just thinking about the other Stark sibling potential incest: Benjen/Lyanna, and that line about how Jon should first make himself a few bastards before joining the NW. I've thankfully never seen that line being used as evidence that Benjen is Jon's father. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Just wanted to say I know that. ;) Perhaps something about what I said was unclear. It's okay, though. I was just thinking about the other Stark sibling potential incest: Benjen/Lyanna, and that line about how Jon should first make himself a few bastards before joining the NW. I've thankfully never seen that line being used as evidence that Benjen is Jon's father. :lol: Oh. All right then ... and I hope you won't anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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