Tamsco Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Hi all. Love reading all the theories about LF's endgame. He's the one character who makes his true intentions secret and from what I can see there are two theories: 1) He's playing for control of the crown or 2) He's a psychopath that wants to watch the world to burn. Both are interesting, but I want to throw out a different theory. - What if Littlefinger's wants to control the world via the Iron Bank (think Rothschild) Consider the following facts:1. Under Littlefinger's watch the Iron Bank loaned out millions to the Crown - that's millions the Iron Bank no longer has in its possesion2. The Iron Bank has invested lots of money in Stannis. If he loses the Battle of Winterfell, that money is gone. Again money the Iron Bank no longer has in its possesion.3. Conflict in the East between Daenerys and the Slavers is active. Someone has to be funding this ... my guess is Iron Bank again. It stands to reason that the Iron Bank is funding all of this war. However the Iron Bank can only have a finite amount of gold (there's no paper money) and the longer war rages the more its vaults become depleted. So what happens if chaos spreads to the Free Cities? What happens if people worry the Iron Bank is running out of Gold? A run on the Iron Bank! Most of the Iron Bank's money are likely deposits from rich merchants in the free cities. If those people en masse try to withdrawl their money there won't be enough for everyone. Craziness If there's a run on the Iron bank, the only one with money is Littlefinger! He can either buy out the Iron Bank or destroy and replace it with his own bank. He ends up with all the oney and scret control over the entire world. Game over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cladinator Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Littlefinger doesn't have a substantial amount of wealth. Definitely not enough to compete with a bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamsco Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 We don't actually know how much he has. It's possible he's been secretly embezzling from the crown for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plectrum Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Eh, I don't think he's going or a career in banking. He's always seemed like the kind of person that wanted to be a kingmaker more than he wanted to be a king. The Iron Bank could potentially fit with that particular type of ambition, but something about it doesn't quite fit for me. It's too quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamsco Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 @plectorum - fair, though I think he could secretly rule the world in that role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 3. Conflict in the East between Daenerys and the Slavers is active. Someone has to be funding this ... my guess is Iron Bank again. The IB cannot fund the slavers and the slave masters of Yunkai are extremely rich; they do not need loans to fund their campaign against Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Apart from smaller leaps here and there, this one's a doozy: "Littlefinger is the only one with money". Why? Sure, he's wealthier than a petty lord of his caliber has any business being, but that's about it. Why assume he even plays in the same league as the real high rollers? Lannister. Hightower. Redwyne. Or moguls of Essos, like Illyrio and Xaro Xhoan Daxos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 The IB has a monstrous amount of money collected from interest, and not being able to go the way of the Fuggers is a huge benefit.The Iron Bank isn't like the versions we have today. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Assuming Petyr has embezzled as much money as is possible and invested it as wisely as possible, he's got a substantial fraction of that millions of dragons stashed away. That could make him one of the richest individuals around. But, even if that's true (which is speculative at best), he's still nowhere near the scale of the Bank. After all, the Bank were able to loan out that entire sum before they even started worrying. And, being worried, they decided to deal with it by lending out even more money, to Stannis. And they had no hesitation about lending money to the Watch at the same time, which implies that they're not exactly hurting at the time. Also, the only way they'd possibly be funding the slavers' war against Dany would be if it were in secret (especially from the slavers themselves), as part of some plot to get the slavers to spend all of their forces, leaving their home cities ripe for an anti-slavery rebellion or conquest (which the Bank would also fund, more openly). The scale involved there is even bigger than the scale of everything going on in Westeros, and if they were planning from the start to spend all that money, clearly it must be well within their means to do so. Finally, you're forgetting that there are still plenty of other people with money. Most of the Free Cities have their own banks--none as rich as the Iron Bank, but certainly more than Littlefinger. And there are plenty of other rich people around in both Westeros and Essos. If Tyrion can promise 100000 as a reward to Ben Plumm and be taken seriously, the Lannisters clearly are at least on the same scale you're talking about. Illyrio has bought the Elephant Party eight times over. And so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpoke Martin Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 People seem to underestimate what Littlefinger has actually been doing as master of coin. Sure he has embezzled a decent amount of money, but people seem to neglect what he has been doing with that money! What has Littlefinger been using the money on:-securing alliances via bribes and paying off debts-investing in businesses-storing up on supplies for the upcoming winter (buying food when its cheap) The money he has was put to great use. Littlefinger is currently in the Vale (untouched by war), and secured some alliances with the lords there (building his army).The WINDS Sansa chapter also mentioned how he plans on selling food (that he bought when prices were very low) for very high prices which will bring Littlefinger substantial amounts of wealth especially in winter time when food will be scarce. Littlefinger has done very well for himself with the money he was in control of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ned's Little Girl Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Why would seizing control of the banking system be his endgame? Why would he stop with that? It's too paltry a goal for Littlefinger. I never had the impression that LF was interested in finance. He likes money, he's good at manipulating money, but I don't think he considers financial manipulations to be interesting, or his goal in life, or a worthy occupation. It's not his passion; it's just something he does because nobody else can. Fomenting chaos is the thing that gets his rocks off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shireen Purratheon Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I like the idea of Petyr being interested in the international banking system, even if it doesn't seem prestigious enough to be his endgame, exactly. However, one of your points doesn't quite make sense to me: 3. Conflict in the East between Daenerys and the Slavers is active. Someone has to be funding this ... my guess is Iron Bank again. It doesn't seem to me that the Iron Bank of Braavos would be funding the Slavers. Aside from the fact that the Masters are probably fine on their own, and have presumably consolidated all the wealth in Slavers' Bay. Part of the entire point of Braavos was to be a place free of the slavery on which the Dragonlords built their empire. I suppose it's possible they'd overlook the issue if there was enough profit involved, but I feel like they'd refuse to fund the Masters on principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Why would seizing control of the banking system be his endgame? Why would he stop with that? It's too paltry a goal for Littlefinger. I never had the impression that LF was interested in finance. He likes money, he's good at manipulating money, but I don't think he considers financial manipulations to be interesting, or his goal in life, or a worthy occupation. It's not his passion; it's just something he does because nobody else can. Fomenting chaos is the thing that gets his rocks off.To be fair, with a minor change, you can make the OP's theory fit this: Just remove the last paragraph (and ignore the title), so his end game is not replacing the Iron Bank, but just destroying it and seeing what he can get out of the ensuing chaos. (And I think that would be something Baelish might do if he could, although, for the reasons already explained earlier, I don't think he could do it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I always figured that Littlefinger was working for the Iron Bank not the other way around. I meant where did he discover the knowledge to come up with such a Ponzi scheme? The Iron Bank gets richer and Littlefinger gets rich and revenge. Iron Bank also can have a say on who ends up on the throne and then have them in their pocket due to the Iron Throne's massive debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makk Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 When the Iron bank lends out money, is it actually real gold? As far as I am aware, the key factor in the differences between our banking system of today and those in GoT, is that money lent is real money made out of gold. That can't just be written off or depreciated away. When Robert was handing out massive tournament prizes, that gold was taken by champions and stored or spent. That money is still in Westeros. When Massey will hire sellswords, they will actually bring the bulk of that wealth with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Bump so that this remains above the stupid Baba Ji threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajk Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Bump so that this remains above the stupid Baba Ji threadsThis just makes it harder to see which threads are actually getting replies. And when the mods delete the spam threads (which they always do), the distortion caused by the bumps will still be there. So, is this really a good idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 When the Iron bank lends out money, is it actually real gold? As far as I am aware, the key factor in the differences between our banking system of today and those in GoT, is that money lent is real money made out of gold. That can't just be written off or depreciated away. When Robert was handing out massive tournament prizes, that gold was taken by champions and stored or spent. That money is still in Westeros. When Massey will hire sellswords, they will actually bring the bulk of that wealth with them. Massey is heading to Braavos to gather sellswords to hire swords. The IB is in Braavos so I assume the gold will be given to him there. Also I am such vouchers of the IB would be good anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghosts Lunch Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Seems to be some kind of mix of supplanting the Feudal Warlord class with the Merchant Burgeoise Class. Seems to revolve around debt servitude to the Iron Bank, or turning much of Westeros into some kind of de facto Vassal of Braavos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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