Cantthinkofa Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Considering Loras was arrested for his homosexual actions, would oberyn have been arrested should he still be alive? Or would he be let off in a sense seeing as it's not particularly illegal in Dorne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jugdesh258 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Mostly here ....people thought that was bad writing in some attempt to exploit social issue. It did not happen in the book to Loras or anyone else. Just speaking from TV Show from Joffrey's own lips it was not illegal in King's Landing either so that excuse could not really be a defense for anyone from Dorne either even if High Sparrow deemed it be a sin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 They appeared to have carte blanche so yeah, in a heartbeat they would have tried to arrest him. However, he prolly would have splattered them all over LF's brothel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Considering Loras was arrested for his homosexual actions, would oberyn have been arrested should he still be alive? Or would he be let off in a sense seeing as it's not particularly illegal in Dorne? The power the sparrows have in the books just seems to appear Ta Da! The hell with the 'many' argument , unless there was a full out peasant rebellion GRRM does not explain why the aristocracy does not have teeth, weak king or not. I didn't buy it in the books and I don't buy it on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenezuelanLord Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The power the sparrows have in the books just seems to appear Ta Da!The hell with the 'many' argument , unless there was a full out peasant rebellion GRRM does not explain why the aristocracy does not haveteeth, weak king or not. I didn't buy it in the books and I don't buy it on the show.Kl is ravaged by war, nobody gives a fuck about the sparrows, and in the books the only noble houses that have trouble with the hs are the tyrell (margaery have been released) and lannister (cersei is at the red keep after the walk of shame), in other regions iirc the only action the sparrows have taken is to protect the septs, septons/septas, silent sister and the common folk, in the books they are not so bad.. but in the show with the lack of background they seem fascists... in the books the sparrows regain their strength because the war have had the effect that you would expect to the common folk, so the people got closer to the faith, when cersei gave green light to the return of the FM, a sheer number of common folk and nobles that had lost something/everything in the war joins them... Now with the question at hand, if oberyn was still alive paraphrasing sam "they can bloody try", most in fact, i was surprised and let down that loras was taken so easily, so much for the bold and prolific knight they presented us in the books and the first seasons.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 The power the sparrows have in the books just seems to appear Ta Da!The hell with the 'many' argument , unless there was a full out peasant rebellion GRRM does not explain why the aristocracy does not haveteeth, weak king or not. I didn't buy it in the books and I don't buy it on the show. "GRRM does not explain why the aristocracy does not have teeth?"After a bloody civil war that they've spent a good number of their men on that we've read about for the second and third books, a siege of the capital, and a riot that's culled a lot of them? Add to it that it's harvest time and many former soldiers in the Crownlands have likely gone home to try and salvage as much of the crop as is possible before the first frost hits King's Landing? Judging from history, popular movements among the peasants were traditionally the most overlooked and quickest to get out of hand as issues of the Medieval period. Part of that was the aristocrats pooh poohing the situation of "they're just peasants", to the fact that it takes time for aristocrats to gather one's fighting forces--most especially during harvest time. Add to it that the three strongest of the Crownlands bannermen are led by one: a sickly old man (who's now dead with his inheritance in dispute amongst six contenders), two: a suckling babe whose teenage husband went missing the last time the city revolted, and three: an old woman known for hosting feasts to marry her youngest daughter off who's finally done so and is killed by her newly minted son-in-law; add to it that it's harvest time and the leadership vacuum occurring in the Crownlands and I think you have an explanation for why the Crownlands nobility do nothing within the text--the strongest three and "most loyal" amongst them have had their leadership taken out for the nonce, and since the war was thought to be over, all the fighting men went home to take care of the harvest while they could. Rebellions during harvest time were often much more successful than at other times, because the aristocracy had to try and get the harvest in. Throw in that they've just recently fought a civil war, and I think no explanation required becomes rather obvious. Add to it that the period in history that Martin draws from includes such peasant rebellions as the Harelle, the Jaquerie, Wat Tyler's Rebellion, Jack Cade Revolt, the John and William Merfold Uprising, the Cornish Rebelllions, and the Peasant Revolt in Flanders, some of which went on for more than a year, before being suppressed--but most assuredly for several months, and I think the precedent for sudden rise to power while the nobility scrambles to try and respond, has been set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 KL is ravaged by war, nobody gives a fuck about the sparrows, and in the books the only noble houses that have trouble with the hs are the tyrell (margaery have been released) and lannister (cersei is at the red keep after the walk of shame), in other regions iirc the only action the sparrows have taken is to protect the septs, septons/septas, silent sister and the common folk, in the books they are not so bad.. but in the show with the lack of background they seem fascists... in the books the sparrows regain their strength because the war have had the effect that you would expect to the common folk, so the people got closer to the faith, when cersei gave green light to the return of the FM, a sheer number of common folk and nobles that had lost something/everything in the war joins them... Also this. ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tormund's beard Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 taking into account what we have seen of show-oberyn there isn't enough sparrows in kings landing to take him anywhere xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 He would have led them into temptation :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Oromus Locke Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Jugdesh258, whatever Joffrey said has nothing to do with it. At the moment Joffrey was king, the general laws of the realm were in effect. When Cersei gave the Faith it's armed branch, they are allowed to enforce themselves to protect the Faith of the Seven. So, crimes in the eyes of the Seven can be enfored only after Cersei gave them that power, so whatever Joffrey said, in fact, wasn't illegal then, but became illegal in the show after Cersei appointed the High Sparrow and the Faith Militant. Buggery is apparently not right according to the basic virtues of the Seven. And on point of the writers exploiting social commentary, I really think this was just streamlining the story the best way they could. Case in point Marge being in jail for just a false testamony - instead of having needed a bunch of scenes of Cersei using her feminine wiles on an Kettleblack-like character and ordering him to KO Tyrion's High Septon, sway Marge and eventually that guy would needed to be tortured for a testamony as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 With the bless of D&D, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jugdesh258 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 whatever Joffrey said has nothing to do with it. At the moment Joffrey was king, the general laws of the realm were in effect. Isnt that what I am saying. That what Joffrey or king's justice was concerned that acts of buggery are not a crime. The fact that Loras can be charged regardless means that general law of the land in either Dorn or King's landing would not be a defence or reason to avoid prosecution. This idea that there is a transfer of judicial power also seems simplistic. Cercei looks to augment her power by using the faith militant and it backfires on her but never is agreeing to shift power. The new faith is overlapping, conflicting, and interfering with king's justice not replacing it. And Cersei need only have Pycell lie about the Moon tea to avoid persecution of Loras. It is not clear in the book that this is a lie but hey Tommen is only ten in that story and still pussy whipped. D&D certainly did not have to use that buggery theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRhllor Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 They certainly could have tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Mulder Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Isnt that what I am saying. That what Joffrey or king's justice was concerned that acts of buggery are not a crime. The fact that Loras can be charged regardless means that general law of the land in either Dorn or King's landing would not be a defence or reason to avoid prosecution. This idea that there is a transfer of judicial power also seems simplistic. Cercei looks to augment her power by using the faith militant and it backfires on her but never is agreeing to shift power. The new faith is overlapping, conflicting, and interfering with king's justice not replacing it. And Cersei need only have Pycell lie about the Moon tea to avoid persecution of Loras. It is not clear in the book that this is a lie but hey Tommen is only ten in that story and still pussy whipped. D&D certainly did not have to use that buggery theme I think this would be a major issue for Lords both great and small. Think of their fuedal society the more outside authority is inflicted on their fuedal fiefdoms the less power they have and the more they have to worry about. Unleashing the Faith on Westeros is just giving everyone another massive headache to worry about, on top of the conflicts and wars already going on in the 7 kingdoms. Sure some of the less intelligent and more religious (not saying one quality goes with the other) will support it and many will support it openly so the Faith doesn't send a peasant army after them but The Faith's newfound power is a threat to their own whether they realize it or not. Even the most pious Lords can still be targeted if a rival manages to sick the faith on them based off of lies or corruption Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Boner Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Logically they would have tried. He was a regular visitor to LF's brothel. They would have known him and his proclivities. I suspect he would have kicked their asses though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 They would have tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hell, if the sparrows are so upset with sexual hedonism, they may as well organize, raise banners and march on Dorne/Porne altogether. It would have been funny to see them try and arrest Oberyn. also, he had an entourage that arrived and was greeted by Tyrion that would have instantily fought for their Prince without any hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 They would have tried. ...and failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 He would have killed them all or died in the attempt. He would not have been taken alive The show's handling of Loras was an obvious attempt to exploit a social issue. Dismally handled, I might add. Just wait till they sentence him to death or something ridiculous like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 The sparrows seem to be centered around King's Landing. I wonder if next season, as the expansion back into the Riverlands Story will have them there as in the original source, it is from the Riverlands where they seem to have organized as the most of the war of the 5 kings took its toll on that area. Also, the Red Wedding seemed to piss off the Sparrows in the original source as well as Ned being killed at the Sept of Baelor after mercy was asked on his behalf per the prior arrangement, only to be re-neged by Joffrey when he called for his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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