Jon Snow vs. Robb Stark

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Clash and Swords- Robb is the better warrior

I don't know where you get this from. Ned had more experience in battle than Jaime but Jaime is better anyway. Same with jon and Robb.

[The Khal Who Rode West]

I would bet on Jon against Robb. The Night Watch and the wildlings hardened Jon. I concede that Robb may have had more experience fighting trained knights in battle. That gives him the technical edge over Jon. But Jon has faced a lot of physical and mental hardships during his time with the wildlings. He knows what it's like to live in constant danger. That's what passes for their version of street smarts. It will be close but when the fight starts to drag on and both men can barely lift their shields, it will be Jon.

Funny how that strategy worked out for Jon against Mance

[Frey Pie]

I don't know where you get this from. Ned had more experience in battle than Jaime but Jaime is better anyway. Same with jon and Robb.

Jaime is an exceptional sword, neither of the other 3 are in his league. Battle experience would lend an edge to two men equally balanced however

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Jaime is an exceptional sword, neither of the other 3 are in his league. Battle experience would lend an edge to two men equally balanced however

I don't see the difference but anyway. Ned had more experience than Brandon, yet Brandon was better fighter.

[Frey Pie]

I don't see the difference but anyway. Ned had more experience than Brandon, yet Brandon was better fighter.

Battle experience counts for a huge amount, and Robb has far more. They were already supposedly fairly even. This may just tip the balance. According the george Brandon is the better sword so I think it's safe to assume there was a large gap between them from the beginning

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Battle experience counts for a huge amount, and Robb has far more. They were already supposedly fairly even. This may just tip the balance. According the george Brandon is the better sword so I think it's safe to assume there was a large gap between them from the beginning

Now that is just moving the goalposts. The point is Brandon like Jon was better than experienced Ned and Robb. Don't forget that Jon has Longclaw and Robb has a simple sword. Unlike Robb, Jon had fought in a much more harsh environment and much more brutal opponents.

[tyrions sliced nose]

I think rob was easily the better warrior but jon has such a sharp mind for battle strategies kinda like the blackfish.

[The Khal Who Rode West]

Now that is just moving the goalposts. The point is Brandon like Jon was better than experienced Ned and Robb. Don't forget that Jon has Longclaw and Robb has a simple sword. Unlike Robb, Jon had fought in a much more harsh environment and much more brutal opponents.

Lol at complaining about moving the goalposts when you just did that. George said that Brandon was better than Ned yes, and that's a straight up question of who was better regardless of when. You then said that Jon was better than experienced Robb. What battle had Robb fought in in AGOT when Jon said he was better than Robb (with only swords you seem to keep ignoring that point that the OP said open weapons)? You moved the goalposts to say that Jon saying that he was better than Robb in AGOT means he's better than experienced Robb in ASOS.

[The Khal Who Rode West]

I think rob was easily the better warrior but jon has such a sharp mind for battle strategies kinda like the blackfish.

Based on what?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Lol at complaining about moving the goalposts when you just did that. George said that Brandon was better than Ned yes, and that's a straight up question of who was better regardless of when. You then said that Jon was better than experienced Robb. What battle had Robb fought in in AGOT when Jon said he was better than Robb (with only swords you seem to keep ignoring that point that the OP said open weapons)? You moved the goalposts to say that Jon saying that he was better than Robb in AGOT means he's better than experienced Robb in ASOS.

And GRRM said that Jon was better than Robb. You keep saying that experience means that Robb is better which is wrong according to the books. By your logic Ned should be better than Brandon. However I know that around here when something is clearly said in the books when something else is based of wishful thinking the so called discussion leads to nothing. So I am not willing to spend more time for something that the author said clearly on page because someone doesn't like what the books say.

[Howl & Read]

In my opinion; Jon > Robb

It really depends on the weapons of choice. Jon also has lived longer, made a better leader as Lord Commander than Robb did as King, and gained a bit more experience. Robb has actually been to war.

Do the have Ghost and Grey Wind with them?

[Barty]

Jon was better at the beginning of GoT. Since then for the next year he trained against farmboys and criminals who have never held a sword in their entire lives while Bran clearly states that Robb spent a lot of his time training with the guardsmen of Winterfell under Ser Rodrik. Much better opponents and a much better instructor than Ser Allister.

After that Jon injured his hand, Joined the wildlings and barely fought, while Robb fought against Lannister Knights on the front lines. It's only after Jon got back from the wildlings that he resumed his training. At the time of Robb's death he has more training and experience of being in a real fight.

I give Robb a very clear advantage at the time of his death.

[Frey Pie]

Now that is just moving the goalposts. The point is Brandon like Jon was better than experienced Ned and Robb. Don't forget that Jon has Longclaw and Robb has a simple sword. Unlike Robb, Jon had fought in a much more harsh environment and much more brutal opponents.

It's not at all moving the goalposts. I'm trusting that Jon was truthful and he was indeed better then Robb at the beginning. Do you think sparring against Grenn and Pyp would improve Jon more then Robb sparring against the guards in Winterfell? What did Thorne teach him? Nothing.

And lol at more brutal...Robb smashed Jaime Lannisters army in two battles, both of which he led. They had just defeated two riverlands armies one after another. They are battle hardened and a high proportion were heavily armoured knights. Jon hasn't fought many at their level

[Ghost's Shadow]

Didn't the mods say enough of these vs threads a while back?

[The Santa of House Claus]

Robb was battle hardened, but so was Jon.

We know Jon trained often and hard with Longclaw

We do not know how much time Robb was able to put towards his sword play after they crowned him, save on the battlefield.

Jon has the superior sword. Robb has superior armor.

Both have Direwolves, but Grey Wind seems to have more experiece and I think is the larger of the two.

Robb is my favorite character, but I have to go with Jon. Give them both regular swords, and its toss up IMO, but with Longclaw, Jon has the edge. Robb has been in more battles, but Jon has trained more, and this is single combat.

[Greymoon]

Jon was better in GoT. Robb had more strength, but Jon had more grace. Afterwards, Robb went to war. In battle, Robb was surrounded by his men (and women) some of the best fighters the north had to offer. Robb also had Grey Wind at his side. Grey Wind would have made sure to protect Robb...So in truth, we do not know how many knights Robb faced in one on one combat, at all, but we can guess that he was rarely alone, even when leading an assault.

Like as not, Robb's importance to the war effort, his position and status as lord of Winterfell and King in the North made it so that few people ever got close enough to him to be facing him in one on one combat. I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that most northerners + Greywind would try to prevent it from happening. Protect your king, and all that.

While Robb fought war and exercised his strategic mind as a battle commander, Jon had more time to practice in the yard with people of various backgrounds, thus getting acquainted with different “non-traditional”, and "traditional" (knightly) fighting styles. At the battle of the wall, Jon had no one to protect him, not even Ghost and he held his own. He also fought against Iron Emmet and more than held his own.

How good is Iron Emmet? Better than most at the wall. The wall has knights as well, these knights and veterans of war would know to recognize skill. So Iron Emmet's skill, when being praised, should not be underestimated under pretence that the wall has few true warriors. Allister Thorne and others, are fully trained knights. They have fought in wars. They know the value of a good swordsman.

Personally I'd say:

Robb

- more experience in the field, better in melee type fighting

- strength in his blows.

Jon

- better at one on one combat

- more flexible and adaptative

both have a good mind for strategy. While Robb has proven his skill, Jon has yet to be truly tested, but there's no reason to doubt he has less of a strategic mind than Robb, since we've seen Jon counseling Stannis. We know they both sat in on the same lessons.

anyway, when facing each other Jon > Robb.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

It's not at all moving the goalposts. I'm trusting that Jon was truthful and he was indeed better then Robb at the beginning. Do you think sparring against Grenn and Pyp would improve Jon more then Robb sparring against the guards in Winterfell? What did Thorne teach him? Nothing.

Yes because that is what we know from the freaking books. Was ever Robb mentioned in the books how good fighter he was? I don't think so. So there is no reason why he should be better.

What you said was that being in battle means that someone is better. So what I am saying is that this is wrong because we know that Brandon was better than Ned.

And lol at more brutal...Robb smashed Jaime Lannisters army in two battles, both of which he led. They had just defeated two riverlands armies one after another. They are battle hardened and a high proportion were heavily armoured knights. Jon hasn't fought many at their level

Robb's army did that. And when it comes down to common Westerosi army vs wildlings with mammoths and giants I bet on the later.

[The Khal Who Rode West]

And when it comes down to common Westerosi army vs wildlings with mammoths and giants I bet on the later.

Lol.

100,000 wildlings, including your mammoths and giants, led by Mance Rayder were defeated by an army of 1500 Westorosi by Stannis.

Raymun Redbeard was defeated by a Westorosi army led by Artos Stark and Harmond Umber.

Bael the Bard was defeated by an army led by a Lord Stark.

Joramun was defeated by an army led by a King Stark

King Theon Stark defeated the wildlings so badly that he broke their power for a generation

Gendel and Gorne were defeated by a King Stark's son

How did you ever come to your conclusion that wildling armies would beat Westorosi armies when they always lose when they come up against one?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

How did you ever come to your conclusion that wildling armies would beat Westorosi armies when they always lose when they come up against one?

As I said the wildlings, a culture who is known for fighting inn order to stay alive and not in order to get rich. are far more brutal from a simple Westerosi army who are mostly made by hedge knights like Arlan of Pennytree, Perkin, Lorimer, Will the Stork, Meribald's brothers and so on.

Again in the books Jon is better, we know from GRRM that someone with no war experience was better than someone with experience and that Robb was never mentioned as a great fighter rather than a great general.

[The Khal Who Rode West]

As I said the wildlings, a culture who is known for fighting inn order to stay alive and not in order to get rich. are far more brutal from a simple Westerosi army who are mostly made by hedge knights like Arlan of Pennytree, Perkin, Lorimer, Will the Stork, Meribald's brothers and so on.

Well every Westorosi army that ever fought the wildlings, including the one comprised of only 1500 men in ASOS, disagrees with your conclusion.