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STARK DEATH PATTERN


theyoungwolf97

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There's probably not much, or nothing at all to it but I've noticed a somewhat pattern in the deaths of Ned, Robb and Jon.

Shortly after each character beheads a man, they die shortly after.

In Ned Stark's case - The Nights Watch deserter

In Robb Stark's - Rickard Karstark

In Jon Snow's - Janos Slynt

As I said, probably not much to it, but thought I'd share it with you guys!

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There's probably not much, or nothing at all to it but I've noticed a somewhat pattern in the deaths of Ned, Robb and Jon.

Shortly after each character beheads a man, they die shortly after.

In Ned Stark's case - The Nights Watch deserter

In Robb Stark's - Rickard Karstark

In Jon Snow's - Janos Slynt

As I said, probably not much to it, but thought I'd share it with you guys!

You live by the sword, you die by the sword. Other than that, I don't think the pattern indicates any meaning.

What pattern I see in the Starks that lead to disaster is their inability to stick to their vows. Let's start with Lyanna. What if Lyanna ran off to avoid her marriage to Robert? That is vow-breaking. Robb broke his just so he could marry the woman he loves. And Jon broke his just to save one little sister. All ended is disaster.

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How sjortly after is "shortly after"?

As shortly after as the only 3 examples were shortly after, like how on earth is that a question? Do you like want/require him to put some sort of spellish guidelines bout it where it happens like within 8 months or something specific? Or are you just being a stickler (amongst other things) and just trying to make him be ultra specific rather than the "shortly after", just for the sake of correcting somebody, before yourself even processing that specificity of shortly after is entirely irrelevant to the small premise he's putting forth

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You live by the sword, you die by the sword. Other than that, I don't think the pattern indicates any meaning.

What pattern I see in the Starks that lead to disaster is their inability to stick to their vows. Let's start with Lyanna. What if Lyanna ran off to avoid her marriage to Robert? That is vow-breaking. Robb broke his just so he could marry the woman he loves. And Jon broke his just to save one little sister. All ended is disaster.

Robb didn't marry Jeyne because he loved her. He married her to protect her honour after they slept together.

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The Starks die whenever they dishonor themselves. Lyanna broke her marriage pact to Robert, Ned confessed to a crime he didn't commit, Robb broke his marriage pact with the Freys, and Jon announced he was deserting the NW.

Never thought of that. Great analyse!

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The Starks die whenever they dishonor themselves. Lyanna broke her marriage pact to Robert, Ned confessed to a crime he didn't commit, Robb broke his marriage pact with the Freys, and Jon announced he was deserting the NW.

What about Brandon and Rickard? And do we really know enough about Lyanna to say she broke her marriage pact?

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You live by the sword, you die by the sword. Other than that, I don't think the pattern indicates any meaning.

What pattern I see in the Starks that lead to disaster is their inability to stick to their vows. Let's start with Lyanna. What if Lyanna ran off to avoid her marriage to Robert? That is vow-breaking. Robb broke his just so he could marry the woman he loves. And Jon broke his just to save one little sister. All ended is disaster.

That is a stupid show myth.

Robb broke his wedding promise because he banged Jeyne and felt that he could not leave her dishonored.

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The Starks die whenever they dishonor themselves. Lyanna broke her marriage pact to Robert, Ned confessed to a crime he didn't commit, Robb broke his marriage pact with the Freys, and Jon announced he was deserting the NW.

"And even that lie was... not without honor". I don't consider most of what you listed as dishonors. (Except Robb. Sorry, boy). Certainly not Ned sacrificing himself for his daughter's safety, and not Lord Snow answering to an open threat (although I'd love to know the Pink Letter's authorship and circumstances of its creation). And we still know little regarding the entire Lyanna affair. (Mr. Martin, sir, it's been near twenty years now, haven't we waited long enough?)

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That is a stupid show myth.

Robb broke his wedding promise because he banged Jeyne and felt that he could not leave her dishonored.

Not that I'm too fond of David and Dan's work myself, but that for one is not a stupid show myth. If you listen to book!Robb, he mentioned love as often as honor when talking about Jeyne. "Love’s not always wise, I’ve learned. It can lead us to great folly, but we follow our hearts . . . wherever they take us. Don’t we, Mother?", he said right before introducing his lady wife.

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What about Brandon and Rickard? And do we really know enough about Lyanna to say she broke her marriage pact?

If Lyanna went with Reaghar willingly then yes. If she was kidnapped then no. To be honest I mentioned her because someone up thread mentioned her.

From what I know about Brandon and Rickard they do not fit this "pattern of dishonor." The pattern may not be perfect for every Stark in Westorosi history but it fits for Starks who die during the events of the books. And besides its better than the pattern proposed by the OP.

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If Lyanna went with Reaghar willingly then yes. If she was kidnapped then no. To be honest I mentioned her because someone up thread mentioned her.

From what I know about Brandon and Rickard they do not fit this "pattern of dishonor." The pattern may not be perfect for every Stark in Westorosi history but it fits for Starks who die during the events of the books. And besides its better than the pattern proposed by the OP.

Lyanna doesn't die during the events of the books either(unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying) and I may be wrong but I have never really gotten the impression that beIng honorable is a Stark trait, I have always thought of it as just a Ned thing, and it is not surprising that his kids would also try to emulate this. Also I think that there doesn't really have to be a pattern.

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They all give up their principles and get killed, which is ironic considering they are among the houses that really try to stick to the rules.



First Ned: He confessed although he initially would have rather died, so he got killed.



Then Robb: He broke his vow to the Freys, got killed.



Then Jon: He broke his vow to the watch, thereby got killed.



They all tried to do the honorable thing which worked out well for them, before they abandoned their rules and got killed because of that. This is the actual Stark death pattern.


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You live by the sword, you die by the sword. Other than that, I don't think the pattern indicates any meaning.

What pattern I see in the Starks that lead to disaster is their inability to stick to their vows. Let's start with Lyanna. What if Lyanna ran off to avoid her marriage to Robert? That is vow-breaking. Robb broke his just so he could marry the woman he loves. And Jon broke his just to save one little sister. All ended is disaster.

Lyanna made no vows to Robert. She wasn't the one who set up the betrothal, nor did she make any marriage vows. Her father was the one who made a deal with Robert.

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Lyanna made no vows to Robert. She wasn't the one who set up the betrothal, nor did she make any marriage vows. Her father was the one who made a deal with Robert.

And the honorable thing to do would be going through with it.

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And the honorable thing to do would be going through with it.

Well that's pretty much up for debate isn't it. Let's say Arya reached her mother and brother and finds out who she was betrothed to. Would you expect her to marry the Frey boy because it's the honorable thing? Or would you root for her running off? Let's say LF had the real Arya shipped off to Ramsay. Would you demand her to marry him, because that's the honorable thing? Or would you root for her to escape as soon as she reaches the North? Or what about Sansa? Would Sansa have done the dishonorable thing if she had managed somehow to escape before being married to Tyrion?

I think most readers would root for either Arya or Sansa escaping any of those marriages. But it's dishonorable when Lyanna runs off for disliking the man her father picked for her.

Anyhow, dishonorable or not... Lyanna broke no vows, if she ran of her own volition.

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