Will TWOW feel completely different from the earlier books?

[First of the First Men]

TWOW is where things will start to converge again towards the grand finale (presumably at Winterfell).

I think that the overall feel of the story and the degree of immersion that was achieved for me very much depended on the fact that in the first five books everything just got bigger and bigger. I remember reading some Arya chapter in ACOK for the first time and realizing that she’s not just going to go home or going to exact revenge with her sword as would be the case in lesser books. That hit me like a ton of bricks. I remember realizing at that point that for all its epicness AGOT had just been the prologue. And a good thing too, because George could only get away with things like Ned’s death, the sack of Winterfell and the RW because there’s still so many other people to root for.

(On a side note, I’m one of those who never felt that AFFC and ADWD were meandering. To me it always felt like even more suspense building, although ADWD certainly lacks resolution. I don’t really mind, ultimately it doesn’t matter in the great scheme of things in which book all hell breaks loose.)

Towards the end of ADWD something strange happened then: things started to converge. It was just a gut feeling first, I’m still not sure what triggered that for me. Probably lots of people being drawn to Meereen did that, something like that had not happened before in the story. That feeling of mine was confirmed by George in several interviews surrounding the release of ADWD.

(I also really liked the motive of rivers flowing together in ADWD, as in Tyrion’s journey down the Rhoyne and Dany’s plan in her last chapter to follow the little stream all the way to the Skahazadhan and Meereen.)

Anyway, I suspect that TWOW will feel completely different because of that and I wonder what that will do to how we view the book. I could imagine feeling wistful towards the end, even though the story will not be completely finished yet. It could completely alter the perception of the whole series by people who have been waiting for many years.

Another aspect is that my gut feeling after finishing ADWD for the first time was that George will need 8 books, not 7 (I’ve lost all gut feeling at this point). However, at this stage he still assumes 7 will suffice. Does that mean that the plot will pick up a lot more speed in the last two books than I can imagine? I hope it will feel organic and not like a story cut short. (Tad Williams’ Otherland series felt rushed towards the end for me)

And then there’s the fact that winter has come and things have to start working out for the Stark kids. Remember that TWOW was first called “A Time for Wolves”. So far everything has been bitter and the plot needs quite an injection of sweet if the ending is to be a bit of both. Will ASOIAF still feel the same to you after a thousand pages of pure awesomeness?

So first five books of buildup and than two books of pure gratification? Are we entering a new era? Will people complain that it's not the same anymore, like many here do wrt AFFC/ADWD?

Thoughts?

[ArborWineCellar]

I think that the overall feel of the story and the degree of immersion that was achieved for me very much depended on the fact that in the first five books everything just got bigger and bigger. I remember reading some Arya chapter in ACOK for the first time and realizing that she’s not just going to go home or going to exact revenge with her sword as would be the case in lesser books. That hit me like a ton of bricks. I remember realizing at that point that for all its epicness AGOT had just been the prologue. And a good thing too, because George could only get away with things like Ned’s death, the sack of Winterfell and the RW because there’s still so many other people to root for.

Agree

(On a side note, I’m one of those who never felt that AFFC and ADWD were meandering. To me it always felt like even more suspense building, although ADWD certainly lacks resolution. I don’t really mind, ultimately it doesn’t matter in the great scheme of things in which book all hell breaks loose.)

I felt the same before reading this: https://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/essays/

Towards the end of ADWD something strange happened then: things started to converge. It was just a gut feeling first, I’m still not sure what triggered that for me. Probably lots of people being drawn to Meereen did that, something like that had not happened before in the story. That feeling of mine was confirmed by George in several interviews surrounding the release of ADWD.

(I also really liked the motive of rivers flowing together in ADWD, as in Tyrion’s journey down the Rhoyne and Dany’s plan in her last chapter to follow the little stream all the way to the Skahazadhan and Meereen.)

I picture the series like this:

Got : Big prologue

ACoK: Big set up for ASoS (Besides Blackwater)

ASoS: Resolution of big plot points prepared in ACoK

AFFC & ADWD: Big Set up for WoW

WoW: Resolution of big plot points set up in AFFC & ADWD sas well as in the first 3 books (Azor Ahai, R+L=J, ToJ etc..)

ADoS: Conclusion

Another aspect is that my gut feeling after finishing ADWD for the first time was that George will need 8 books, not 7 (I’ve lost all gut feeling at this point). However, at this stage he still assumes 7 will suffice. Does that mean that the plot will pick up a lot more speed in the last two books than I can imagine? I hope it will feel organic and not like a story cut short. (Tad Williams’ Otherland series felt rushed towards the end for me)

7 will suffice, prepare yourself for MANY IMPORTANT DEATHS in WoW

And then there’s the fact that winter has come and things have to start working out for the Stark kids. Remember that TWOW was first called “A Time for Wolves”. So far everything has been bitter and the plot needs quite an injection of sweet if the ending is to be a bit of both. Will ASOIAF still feel the same to you after a thousand pages of pure awesomeness?

This is where GRRM is such a great writer, we believe things will work out for the Starks, but does it really have to work out? Or would it in the real world? IMO the whole series is bitter sweet not just the conclusion.

Are we entering a new era? Will people complain that it's not the same anymore, like many here do wrt AFFC/ADWD?

People will complain because people always complain, but i will agree to say that WoW will be differnt from the other books because after such time gaps since the beginning of the series GRRM has evolved as a person and his writing will aswell, WoW will be different but I truly believe it will be as good if not better than any thing we have read so far :)

[First of the First Men]

People will complain because people always complain, but i will agree to say that WoW will be differnt from the other books because after such time gaps since the beginning of the series GRRM has evolved as a person and his writing will aswell, WoW will be different but I truly believe it will be as good if not better than any thing we have read so far :)

I also have a hunch that TWOW may well turn out to be the best book yet, by virtue of combining the action of ASOS with the intricacy of ADWD. But there will also be (for the first time) a feeling that things will come to an end.

[ArborWineCellar]

For sure many plot lines will be concluded, but a few new ones should appear as well dragging on to ADoS :)

[SevasTra82]

I do expect A LOT of deaths in TWOW....GRRM has alluded quite a few times that he needed to trim down his POV's. He said it in a joking manner, sure, but there was an heir of foreshadowing to his laughter.

We know TWOW is going to begin with two great battles (Mereen and siege of Winterfell). Both of these battles where actually supposed to be in ADWD, but got cut out due to size limitations.

I do expect, at the least, Jon's Parentage to finally be revealed, Howland Reed to make an appearance, Benjens fate to be (at the very least) cleared up a bit, and Selmy to get killed early on during the siege.

[Gabriel Chase]

I base this purely on the title, but I do expect this book to differ from the others. Each book in the Song series has had the title A ... of/for ... The fact that this latest book carries the title THE Winds of Winter makes me think GRRM has a finale-based purpose to his use of the definite article.

[The Sword of the Evening]

I base this purely on the title, but I do expect this book to differ from the others. Each book in the Song series has had the title A ... of/for/with ... The fact that this latest book carries the title THE Winds of Winter makes me think GRRM has a finale-based purpose to his use of the definite article.

Nitpicking

Edited to add: I hope you don't think I was saying your post was nitpicking. I was trying to say I was nitpicking by adding "with" to your list bc of A Dance WITH Dragons.

[Fox Mulder]

I think it almost has to the pace is definitely going to be much quicker, there are too many loose ends and they still have to get to the war with the others at this point the others plotline is almost doomed to feel rushed if there are only two more books.

[Slowpoke Martin]

With the WINDS chapters we've been shown so far, expect the beginning of the book to be around the same pace as FEAST & DANCE. The released chapters all seem to follow the same slower paced filler material we had in the past 2 books.

[The Sword of the Evening]

Ya if the released material is any preview of the pace to come we definitely are looking at 8 books.

[nickdt]

With the WINDS chapters we've been shown so far, expect the beginning of the book to be around the same pace as FEAST & DANCE. The released chapters all seem to follow the same slower paced filler material we had in the past 2 books.

But keep in mind, that some of those chapters were intended to be in Dance. I think after the conclusion of both battles, the speed will increase. 

[Whitering]

It should change around the mid point. The sloiler chapters feel much the same but if this really is the second last book, people are going to be dying in droves and at least some plot points will get wrapped up. GRRM is not Jacqueline Carey however, so don't expect literally every thread to be dealt with.

[ambi76]

Yeah, no. The sample chapters read exactly like Dance to me. So I'm curious where this gigantic shift in the narrative should come from. Granted the sample chapters were probably chosen for their relative uneventfullness and non-spoilerness, so there is that..

[Cas Stark]

No.  I don't believe he will pick up the pace.  The last two books is the new normal.  The sample chapters, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions support this, they're long on detail but not much really happens or is revealed or is important.  Yes, it will take 8 books to finish, if it finishes.

[The Sword of the Evening]

On second thought, I am really hoping that the released WOW chapters were removed from ADWD and therefore the pace is about the same. Hopefully once we get to new WOW chapter the pace will quicken. 

 

If he maintains this pace throughout TWOW I feel either there are going to be more than 7 books or that he really is going to consolidate plotlines (such as most of the Mereen POV's dying, etc.).

[A Ghost of Someone]

I expect this book to be very fast paced. pov characters will die off and get us toward the end game. Action, Action, especially in the beginning. The Vale is also a powder keg seemingly thanks to the sample Alayne Chapters. Things are really ramping up in the novels.

[Curled Finger]

From what I've read the sample chapters were cut from Feast and Dance and GRRM promises lots of blood and death and "tying up" of plots in Winds.   Oh please let it be conducive to the overall story.   Not looking forward to more Dany travelogue but anticipate several characters crossing her path and that will be interesting.   Tyrion and Dany alone will be interesting, add Victarion and it will be entertaining.  I hope to see Dany meet Euron.  No really I hope to see any main character meet Euron.  There are so many loose story lines now so late in this tale that Winds almost begs to end the Lannister reign, begin a few new conquest contests, increase both magics and really see some of the conspiracies come to light.  Most importantly, to get the main characters all back on the same continent.   The readers are due for some answers and overdue for conspicuously missing characters to be revealed or explained.  

 

What I don't look forward to is having the show end with whatever they have concocted and still wait another 5 years for A Dream of Spring.  

[First of the First Men]

On second thought, I am really hoping that the released WOW chapters were removed from ADWD and therefore the pace is about the same. Hopefully once we get to new WOW chapter the pace will quicken. 

 

I feel there will be no more samples because anything more would give away too much.

[ArborWineCellar]

We can assume all the sample chapters are from ADWD/AFFC editing, and it's better that way, the overall book experience is what it is because of the chapter alignement and the overall build up as the book rolls on.

[First of the First Men]

What I don't look forward to is having the show end with whatever they have concocted and still wait another 5 years for A Dream of Spring.  

 

After season 5 I'd say that something happening on the show doesn't mean it'll go down that way in the books. So I don't really care about the show finishing before the books anymore.

 

5 year till ADOS is another matter of course. Faster would be better. :cool4: