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So Jaquen lied flat out to Arya from day 1


Wavey Sauce

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She pretty much went to go be a FM on false pretenses. When they first met and departed they had that one last chat. Jaquen asked if she wanted to learn how to kill and he would train her. That if she learned how she could "offer up as many names as she wanted to the red god". That if she took the time to go and train, she could learn how to kill anyone she wanted, Cersei, king joff etc. (this just has to be mistake writing right). So she has the idea that he liked her and he almost owes her from her saving his life.



But then when she first even gets there she is not led in, and then eventually brought back. Is never given a set of rules or what the whole ordeal is, its almost as if she went back and he took her back because she had nowhere else to go and nothing else to do.



She ends up getting it pounded into her head that she is nobody. And that she cannot kill to benefit herself, only the many faced god chooses etc. Main point being she has to forget herself and what she wants, therefore not being able to get revenge on whom she wants it on. So if she would have went with him the first time and left Gendry and Hot pie. What would Jaquen have said to her once they got back. What that she actually cant get revenge on her enemies and she has to become no one and forget everything and everybody in her life? That is some serious false pretense. She assumed a whole different nature. If she knew that was the case from the start she would have never even left Westeros


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  • 3 weeks later...

As far as I can recall Jaqen never offered her something like this in the books, he just gave her the coin as a last resort for the case she really has no home anymore. I do recall having frowned when he said that in season 2, thinking it was a rather unnessecary addition that will cause exactly this reaction when we get confronted with this whole "never kill anyone you know the name of"-shtick the Faceless Men have.

 

To me it's just a continuity error, nothing more, nothing less. This recruitment-offer will likely never be referenced again.

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IIRC, in the show when they parted in Season 2, what Jaqen said was: she could offer up the names to The Red God.  That could be taken many ways...........as in, she could offer up prayers for them or make a formal request.  Not that I want to defend the crappy writing.  The coin was offered as a way to find him again.   :dunno:

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IIRC, in the show when they parted in Season 2, what Jaqen said was: she could offer up the names to The Red God.  That could be taken many ways...........as in, she could offer up prayers for them or make a formal request.  Not that I want to defend the crappy writing.  The coin was offered as a way to find him again.   :dunno:

 

Here's a related question. Is the Red God the Many-Faced God on the show? I was under the impression that the Red God was the Lord of Light...

 

If so, then why is Jaqen worshiping R'hllor? I got confused on this rewatch...

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Just how many Jaqens are there supposed to be?

 

A name is just a name, a face is just a face.

 

On the other hand, D&D might doubt their audience to realize that there are other Faceless Men if they don't rub that into their faces.

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Here's a related question. Is the Red God the Many-Faced God on the show? I was under the impression that the Red God was the Lord of Light...

 

If so, then why is Jaqen worshiping R'hllor? I got confused on this rewatch...

 

I am not certain but I think when Jaquen says ''the red god'' he means some kind of god of war or blood or murder etc. It's a god we don't know, which Jaqen possibly worships.

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Are we even sure that the Jaqen from season 2 and the Jaqen form 5 are the same guy? Maybe the guy from season 5 just used that particular face.

 

When I first saw the episode, I assumed Arya first met the Kindly Man and he didn't know her. Then, off screen, he somehow checked with the real Jaqen and learned Arya's story, so next he seeks her in Braavos and get her to the HoB&W, and he wears Jaqen's face to make her comfortable.

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Does anyone know why Jaqen was a prisoner in Westeros in the first place? If the FM are so skilled, it seems a bit odd that he was caught, unless he deliberately inserted himself among the prisoners to be taken to the Wall for reasons of his own.  I have a crackpot theory that he is in fact Syrio, and Syrio too was deliberately placed to watch over Arya for some reason.  Otherwise what was the First Sword of Braavos doing in Kings Landing giving lessons to a little girl?  

What is the deal with the FM anyway? How do they decide who dies? And why do people in other places always speak of them as just expensive assassins for hire?

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Does anyone know why Jaqen was a prisoner in Westeros in the first place? If the FM are so skilled, it seems a bit odd that he was caught, unless he deliberately inserted himself among the prisoners to be taken to the Wall for reasons of his own.  I have a crackpot theory that he is in fact Syrio, and Syrio too was deliberately placed to watch over Arya for some reason.  Otherwise what was the First Sword of Braavos doing in Kings Landing giving lessons to a little girl?  
What is the deal with the FM anyway? How do they decide who dies? And why do people in other places always speak of them as just expensive assassins for hire?


Excellent questions. I'm intrigued by the Faceless Men and want to know more about them as well. I also wondered how Jaquen ended up a prisoner. So I basically have no answers but appreciate your questions.
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Why he was in jail...well it was probably intentional to get close to his target and rather than escape afterwards he knew given time he'd get a chance to disappear again if they were taken to the Wall.

 

Or alternatively he (and/or other FM get into this sort of situation on purpose to find recruits for the Many Faced God. What better person to train as a lethal assassin or giver of mercy than someone who has nothing and is waiting on death row where they are already effectively faceless and doomed to become unknown shortly.

 

I think that although the dialogue from the show doesn't match the book it still makes sense. 

Once Arya is fully trained she can offer up as many names as she wants but that means going after targets not just going all Lady Stoneheart on the rest of Westeros. The Faceless Men are a secretive cult of assassins and mercy givers, not some psychotic revenge organisation full of freelance killers ticking off their shit-list.

I'm pretty sure they'd still frown upon her killing Trant even if fully trained; his name had not been given to the Many Faced God and a FM cannot just pick someone to kill just because they personally don't like them.

 

As for forgetting her past life, well that is the nature of being a FM. It's not there as some means for pissed off rich kids to get revenge on those who wronged them, it is a much more complex organisation. At the end of the day it is a religious cult and they have to indoctrinate their recruits into their way of operating and thinking. JH would not have given Arya the coin if he did not think she was suitable material.

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The Syrio = Jaqen concept is not new. Well discussed. I really hope it's true. I want there to be more to the FM than meets the eye. I felt like the chapter in Oldtown with Pate was intriguing but ultimately a let down because we didn't learn more. I want to know what they are up to and what the maesters are up to. Would like some resolution on all that. Hopefully Sam and the Sphinx will shed light on it.
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Does anyone know why Jaqen was a prisoner in Westeros in the first place? If the FM are so skilled, it seems a bit odd that he was caught, unless he deliberately inserted himself among the prisoners to be taken to the Wall for reasons of his own.  I have a crackpot theory that he is in fact Syrio, and Syrio too was deliberately placed to watch over Arya for some reason.  Otherwise what was the First Sword of Braavos doing in Kings Landing giving lessons to a little girl?  

What is the deal with the FM anyway? How do they decide who dies? And why do people in other places always speak of them as just expensive assassins for hire?

There is a theory that Jaqen was hired to kill Ned. Cersei and Varys planned for Ned to take the black so he would have been in the group heading north with Yoren, if Joff hadn't had his head chopped off. 

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She pretty much went to go be a FM on false pretenses. When they first met and departed they had that one last chat. Jaquen asked if she wanted to learn how to kill and he would train her. That if she learned how she could "offer up as many names as she wanted to the red god". That if she took the time to go and train, she could learn how to kill anyone she wanted, Cersei, king joff etc. (this just has to be mistake writing right). So she has the idea that he liked her and he almost owes her from her saving his life.
 
But then when she first even gets there she is not led in, and then eventually brought back. Is never given a set of rules or what the whole ordeal is, its almost as if she went back and he took her back because she had nowhere else to go and nothing else to do.
 
She ends up getting it pounded into her head that she is nobody. And that she cannot kill to benefit herself, only the many faced god chooses etc. Main point being she has to forget herself and what she wants, therefore not being able to get revenge on whom she wants it on. So if she would have went with him the first time and left Gendry and Hot pie. What would Jaquen have said to her once they got back. What that she actually cant get revenge on her enemies and she has to become no one and forget everything and everybody in her life? That is some serious false pretense. She assumed a whole different nature. If she knew that was the case from the start she would have never even left Westeros


I don't think that conversation occurs, quite like that in the books, but then even in the books when Arya gets among the FM it's never stated , that I know of, that a FM has a duty to a God if saved, the Red if saved from fire, the Drowned if saved from a watery grave? Saved from being hanged , what god is that?
George is inconsistent on the book, it's not until the 'FM Council' that one FM tells her it is forbidden for a FM to be an avenger.
Never comes up before that.
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As far as I can recall Jaqen never offered her something like this in the books, he just gave her the coin as a last resort for the case she really has no home anymore. I do recall having frowned when he said that in season 2, thinking it was a rather unnessecary addition that will cause exactly this reaction when we get confronted with this whole "never kill anyone you know the name of"-shtick the Faceless Men have.


Tho George foreshadows that in the books when Arya gets to Braavos. The crew of Titan's Daughter fall over themselves to make sure she knows their names and who they are. That seems a puzzle at the time , much later we have that anyone-you-know deal, which by the way the show has not done.
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Why he was in jail...well it was probably intentional to get close to his target and rather than escape afterwards he knew given time he'd get a chance to disappear again if they were taken to the Wall.


Tom Wlaschiha in an interview had this to say about the Black Cells and Arya :

“My theory is that it’s all part of a bigger plan — that he decided to be [thrown into the Black Cells at King’s Landing] in the first place to meet Arya. But in which way exactly their story is going to continue? No idea.”

I have always thought that myself, that the FM were hired to shadow Arya. Arya getting to Braavos alive was a test.
Why? Arya has some bigger role to play than being a super assassin. But the power plot for her wants her to have FM skills.
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