Survivor: Second Chances

[Kyoshi]

GERTRUDE,

I accept that.

________

I'm not up for a Joe win, but I do want him to make it to the family visit, that was something he seemed to really want. It's nice when the castaways reach their goals--like Andrew in the jury.

Someone brought this up on Rob Has A Website: Is it possible that production engineered such an early merge in order to save Andrew. I've been thinking about it and the more I do, the more it makes sense. I honestly think he would have gone home if the merge hadn't happened.

*the window is still dancing at me. I'm not just being dramatic here, I think it's giving me a headache.

[Fiddler]

That was an entertaining episode.

I don't mind the Savage boot, I never really felt anything one way or the other for him.  What really bothered me this episode was Cierra.  Her "play the game" demands makes her come across as a petulant child.  Obviously everyone is "playing the game", just not with her.  Also, the eye rolls, holy shit I just wanted to smack her.

Also couldn't stand Abi this episode.  She continues to show that she is just a rude person that doesn't care for anyone else (could be just the edit though).  Really bothered me when Stephen was talking about how down he was and Abi said something like "get over it".  That was a time to be a little sympathetic and listen to the guy, but she had to be rude.

The idol play was masterful, but, I don't think it will help in the long run.

Also, I can't wait for the finale.  I think this is going to be one of the most bitter juries ever and should lead to a few hate filled rants in the finale (which I love )

[Gertrude]

So the Ponderosa video sums up what I dislike about Savage. He is a likable guy and has a lot of good qualities, but he's got this veneer of entitled baby when things are going badly that is very off-putting. I know we only see the tiniest sliver of what productions wants us to see of Savage's personality, but I wasn't overly fond of what they showed us. I want to see more of Ponderosa Savage after a few days of mellowing. That guys looks like fun.

Regarding Joe - my mom likes him. I asked her to describe his personality and she drew a blank.

[Ken Stone]

Someone brought this up on Rob Has A Website: Is it possible that production engineered such an early merge in order to save Andrew. I've been thinking about it and the more I do, the more it makes sense. I honestly think he would have gone home if the merge hadn't happened.

*the window is still dancing at me. I'm not just being dramatic here, I think it's giving me a headache.

Not possible. All the merges, challenges, twists, and HII are determined before contestants are chosen. If not then they are breaking laws and could be in a ton of trouble. Essentially all past losers could sue if it was determined that they were favoring and helping certain contestants at the expense of others.  

[Howdyphillip]

That was an entertaining episode.

I don't mind the Savage boot, I never really felt anything one way or the other for him.  What really bothered me this episode was Cierra.  Her "play the game" demands makes her come across as a petulant child.  Obviously everyone is "playing the game", just not with her.  Also, the eye rolls, holy shit I just wanted to smack her.

Also couldn't stand Abi this episode.  She continues to show that she is just a rude person that doesn't care for anyone else (could be just the edit though).  Really bothered me when Stephen was talking about how down he was and Abi said something like "get over it".  That was a time to be a little sympathetic and listen to the guy, but she had to be rude.

The idol play was masterful, but, I don't think it will help in the long run.

Also, I can't wait for the finale.  I think this is going to be one of the most bitter juries ever and should lead to a few hate filled rants in the finale (which I love )

You know, it wasn't that long ago that everyone dog piled Dan Foley for saying the exact same thing about Shirren during a confessional. I believe that I was the only one around here that spoke up for him. Again, I have kept in touch with the guy this year and he seems to be nothing but a sweetheart of a man who did go a little too far defending himself against his edit.

So the Ponderosa video sums up what I dislike about Savage. He is a likable guy and has a lot of good qualities, but he's got this veneer of entitled baby when things are going badly that is very off-putting. I know we only see the tiniest sliver of what productions wants us to see of Savage's personality, but I wasn't overly fond of what they showed us. I want to see more of Ponderosa Savage after a few days of mellowing. That guys looks like fun.

Regarding Joe - my mom likes him. I asked her to describe his personality and she drew a blank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xooWA2RLimA

 

The above link is Andrew's Pondarosa video and it may just be the best one that I have seen yet. It does go over almost every aspect of his personality. His ego and entitlement are on display in full force, yet there is also a tender and human side to him that makes it really hard to completely hate the guy. This season definitely benefited by having him on the show, and if the producers ever do a Third Time's a Charm season, he is among my first on the wish list to be brought back. I hope he hires that call center in India again to vote him back in.

[Whiskeyjack]

Awesome episode. 

I mentioned last week that I was hoping Wentworth would blindside somebody with her idol.  She delivered on that, and it was great to watch.  Definitely cheering for her now, though I'm guessing she's still in a difficult spot.  But who knows.  Maybe Joe loses immunity next week and its another battle between him and Stephen. 

Wonder why they didn't split the votes this week.  That would have saved Savage.  I guess they didn't feel like they could trust everyone in the majority alliance.

[Gertrude]

My guess on the split not happening is that the main alliance was pretty split on who they wanted to see go. I'm betting they were pretty wary of someone (Stephen, Joe, maybe Savage) using the split to their advantage and making a move outside the three women. I haven't seen or listened to Savage's exit interviews, but I'm guessing this will come up at some point because ... yeah. Everyone splits the vote all the time. It's just standard operating procedure at this point.

The more I think back on it, the more I think Jeremy is looking like a winner.

[Scrambled Aegon]

I wonder if there was more happening that made Kelley more confident of that move?

I'm thinking Joe might have told her specifically who was getting votes and they cut it out of the episode for suspense? I don't know, it wouldn't surprise me.

He's got such a violent, disturbing personality.  

Violent and disturbing? Annoying and overconfident and self-righteous I get but when has he ever shown any signs of wanting to be violent against anyone?

Agree w/ basically all of what Kyoshi said.The "big moves" philosophy is ridiculous and I'm really tired of hearing it, so I'm tired of Ciera. Andrew being gone... idk I'll get to that after replies in my assessment of the episode/season. And I really don't think it was being inflexible or self-centered or anything like that that led to his downfall here; I think it was just being a strong member of the core alliance and the outsiders had an Idol. Like clearly he did some day-to-day social stuff wrong to be their target but I don't think it's anything too glaring or anything that speaks to an overall flaw in his game as much as some of the (unaired) stuff from Pearl Islands does. He was in a really strong spot but he just wasn't flawless like Kim Spradlin so human nature made him unable to trust his alliance enough for a vote-split and the variable of Idols got in the way. I don't think he could have done a whole lot differently here at all, really. There's no way for someone like him to not be a visible threat, and while it's his own imperfections as a player that sent him home... I don't expect perfection and I don't think having strong enough bonds with every single person that an entire cast of Second Chancers won't care what a threat you are is too bad at all.

 

But we also don't totally know why they targeted him so maybe he was worse in subtle day-to-day ways than came across on TV.

 

That being said, I just realized that Joe hasn't survived any Tribal Councils yet

Yeah he's actually tied with Marcus for the record for most days Immune right now. I hope he wins one more to break the record, but I will be amazed if he wins Immunity next week, since I think the vote will absolutely come down to Stephen vs. Joe next week at Tribal, and I'll be pretty surprised (but pleasantly so) if Joe isn't the one who loses.

 

I'm not sure if Savage would have gone next if they hadn't merged. I think Spencer may have... but that doesn't really make producer interference less likely, haha.

 

So the Ponderosa video sums up what I dislike about Savage. He is a likable guy and has a lot of good qualities, but he's got this veneer of entitled baby when things are going badly that is very off-putting. I know we only see the tiniest sliver of what productions wants us to see of Savage's personality, but I wasn't overly fond of what they showed us. I want to see more of Ponderosa Savage after a few days of mellowing. That guys looks like fun.

Regarding Joe - my mom likes him. I asked her to describe his personality and she drew a blank.

I'll have to check out the video but I think that's about the fairest assessment of him I've heard, yeah. I think he's generally a really likable guy, and when things go against him he gets dramatic about it, but I just enjoy that brand of drama. I hope he's more fun in Ponderosa... but on the other hand I also want him to be pissed off at FTC. And I absolutely love that thing about your mom, haha. That's the best summary of Joe I can imagine.

Not possible. All the merges, challenges, twists, and HII are determined before contestants are chosen. If not then they are breaking laws and could be in a ton of trouble. Essentially all past losers could sue if it was determined that they were favoring and helping certain contestants at the expense of others.  

It's very possible that they can shuffle it around, and there's really no way for anyone to know or to prove that it was for/against any particular player. I mean look at the conveniently timed bottle twist in Cook Islands whose only possible outcome was helping the likable racial minorities on an already controversial race season. Or in All-Stars how Rob and Amber, a pre-juror and total second-rate fodder respectively, were dominating the game and about to generate an incredibly boring boot order... then suddenly there's a swap that just so happens to only swap Amber. I think the odds of that are... what, 1 in 1024? And I think there's a better than 0.0977% chance they wanted Amber out of the game... even before you factor in Jerri alleging that the vase was so narrow there was only one possible buff for each of them to grab.

 

In any case, it's a known fact that they do this at least sometimes. There were leaked photos of a planned production schedule for Palau taken a few days into the game which iirc included a tribal swap, and there was also a video of Probst in Gabon where he walks past the F10 challenge setup, and in the background you can distinctly see that they've all been painted different colors, like every Individual Immunity Challenge is painted. (And this one just happened to be a balance/endurance challenge very typical for a merge, and the swap included a feast at the traditional merge number.) I'm 99% sure I remember Probst outright saying during SJDS that they switch around the order of challenges post-merge to create drama, though I haven't been able to find it since... but in any case, there's almost no way to know if these things have been changed or why, so there's no risk, and they're trying to produce a television show, so there's a possible reward if it helps people they think will increase ratings.

Well, and there's the fact that concrete evidence exists of things being changed for Palau and Gabon.

 

Personally I don't care at all anyway. It's a television show whose game we see very little of and that's fundamentally unfair on a bazillion levels to begin with. As long as it's not incredibly frequent and it's manipulation as opposed to rigging, it doesn't really affect my viewing experience one way or the other what games the producers are playing.

 

This post is already long enough sooo I'll say all my thoughts on the episode/season/Ponderosa later. More time can only help me get over the tragic and unbelievable elimination of human history's greatest and most infallible leader, and also I need to watch his Ponderosa and eat my frozen pizza. Mmm.

ps: new layout still sux and if you ever doubt how much i truly love each and every one of you let my continued posting even within this garbage be a testament to it.

[Dr. Pepper]

I'm just a casual Survivor fan so I rarely go and check out the extra stuff after an episode.  I might read Dalton Ross' recap but that's usually about it.  Last night and this evening I've gone to check out interviews and podcasts and fan forums.  The episode was just so great in a season that's already shaping up to be one of the best.  It's amazing to see the collective celebration of Savage's outster and the excitement over the cast dynamics and such.  It's been fun.

 

Violent and disturbing? Annoying and overconfident and self-righteous I get but when has he ever shown any signs of wanting to be violent against anyone?

 

I think we already had this conversation, not to mention we saw plenty of Savage's facade slippage in this most recent episode.

[Scrambled Aegon]

We had similar conversations but I am pretty sure we never had one about him allegedly being "violent."

 

My reaction to the episode was a pretty resounding "eh." I was pretty sure Savage was going home before it and would have bet money on it two minutes in, and by Tribal Council it may as well have been written in a neon sign in front of my screen. Fortunately Stephen had nothing to do with it; looks like they're probably building up Stephen/Joe which I can deal with a lot more easily. So while I was wrong before the episode about how we'd get there, the outcome was too expected for me to be disappointed. Savage going... I don't know how I feel about it really. On one hand I'd have loved for him to somehow win with an edit like he was getting... but with an edit like this he was almost certainly never going to; had he won we'd probably have just gotten an RI Rob-ish "Best Leader EVAR!!!" coronation (albeit on a smaller scale.) So him losing is probably for the best, and if he has to lose then this was definitely the best time for it. Enough time that it was built up well, not so much time that it feels unnecessarily drawn out. And it was a pretty good way for him to go out, too; I don't think anything happened this season to tarnish his legacy. So I'm.. not happy, but definitely content.

 

On the other hand, when I look at the F11, I'm worried about the future of the season, because who am I even supposed to root for? Ciera is incredibly annoying, Kelley/Spencer are incredibly hollow characters, I would root for Kelly/Kimmi/Keith but we basically never see them. Joe is... Joe. Stephen is an interesting presence to have around but really not one I'm rooting for, and he started to get on my nerves this week. Like, okay yeah saying it to his face is shitty, but it's passed the point of "Whoa! Stephen has emotions!" and gotten into Debbie Downer zone. Abi-Maria is fantastic but has also fallen off the map; she had a huge presence early on then utterly disappeared with basically no gradient in between. This episode she got a small-but-visible presence, though, so maybe she'll be handled with a little more nuance from here on out? I hope so. In any case, though, that's not someone I can root for. Tasha is intriguing but also kind of inconsistent and I don't know where things are going with her. I'm fine with Jeremy but he can't carry this whole F11 on his own.

 

So I guess best-case scenario for me is Kelly to keep getting about as much focus as she got this week, Kimmi/Keith to suddenly become consistent and visible characters, Tasha to take on a more consequential role, and Abi to be supporting comic relief. All of that together would do wonders for this season for me. I'm increasingly wondering just how much I'm going to enjoy this one when all is said and done, but I haven't lost hope.

 

Episode itself was, again, just "eh." For the most part it was just watchable but uninteresting strategic development towards a forecasted outcome. Easily my second least favorite of the season after the Peih-Gee boot. But we did get Keith doing Keith things at the reward, so that was fun. More Keith things.

 

It hasn't been a bad season by any means but I increasingly think it has some bad trends that are lending themselves to a really mediocre group to round out the season. But there's still hope.

 

oh and ponderosa edit: Liked the video a lot. I expected him to be a worse sport about it but he was really totally okay with it - just stunned and reeling from that, but didn't have a bad word for anyone who did it. I didn't expect that at all.

[Slurktan]

So Wentworth has been using something called periscope and apparently she knew they were voting for her because Joe told her.  However not in a way to get her to do something, he told her they were all voting for her and he was too and didn't want it to be a blindside.  So hilariously Joe just got rid of the guy who was actively trying to protect him, by being a doofus.

[Dr. Pepper]

We had similar conversations but I am pretty sure we never had one about him allegedly being "violent."

 

I definitely wrote about how Savage is the sort of man that women I know would be concerned and cautious about how they said no to him.  I certainly wasn't implying that this was because he might start crying fake man tears.  The way he discusses people in his life, treats those he considers inferior, and the anger and shock he exhibits when things don't go his way make his personality very clear to me.

We see one character very different.  From here on out I'll assume we both simply to agree to disagree.  The character is gone, praise baby jesus, and the next time we'll be forced to deal with his presence is in the finale.  

So Wentworth has been using something called periscope and apparently she knew they were voting for her because Joe told her.  However not in a way to get her to do something, he told her they were all voting for her and he was too and didn't want it to be a blindside.  So hilariously Joe just got rid of the guy who was actively trying to protect him, by being a doofus.

Hahaha.  I think I noticed that in the moment but didn't really think on it.  It really is hilarious when you stop to think about it.  Poor Joe.  I don't quite get the Joe hype, I'm guessing he was a mega favorite on whatever season he was on, but he seems kind of a dud here, aside from that fact that the challenges are ideally suited to someone with his physical abilities.  

 

Regarding Cierra as several have written about her.  Grr, I can't unsee how annoying she can be now.  I really like her as I think she's a great element in the game and she seems to do well when she's on the bottom.  I also like how the dynamic works when she's paired with certain other characters.  I was enjoying her challenging others who might be on the bottom to break with the main alliance and make a move with her, though now I'm seeing how it can kind of look like "wah wah no one's playing with me."  It probably doesn't work so well, either, when it's an even number like they have now and can easily be split into four clear groups who have plans to go to final three together.  

[Scrambled Aegon]

Imagine if Joe hadn't been Immune and they'd voted him out there. <3

 

I mean that wouldn't have happened because he'd probably have gone home without Immunity so the Kelley vote wouldn't have been a thing, and even if it were still a thing she wouldn't Idol out the only person on her side... but still, it's a funny thought.

 

edit since Pepper ninja'd me: Yeaaahhh okay I will definitely just agree to disagree with that statement about women being afraid to say no to Savage. To emphatically disagree. That is an.... especially big accusation that outright makes me uncomfortable. So I guess you saw something very, very different in him than I did but in any case I don't think there's... any benefit to continuing to talk about him at that point for either of us, since you are probably very set in that.

Joe was almost identical in his other season, which was right before this. But most viewers totally eat it up when there is a young white guy with long hair who is good in challenges and doesn't always wear a shirt, and he had literally just been voted out a week before fan voting started, so he was an absolute lock. But basically the only difference between this and his previous season is the last cast was worse so he looked better by comparison.

[Howdyphillip]

Imagine if Joe hadn't been Immune and they'd voted him out there. <3

 

I mean that wouldn't have happened because he'd probably have gone home without Immunity so the Kelley vote wouldn't have been a thing, and even if it were still a thing she wouldn't Idol out the only person on her side... but still, it's a funny thought.

Once again, I am always delighted to read posts from you about this show. We watch this from such a different perspective that it is always refreshing to hear your opinions on things. I am more addressing your previous post than this one, but I didn't want to take up so much room in the quote column.

I thought that this was one of the best episodes of Survivor in years and this is turning out to be one of the best seasons of all time. You seem to be almost exactly opposite in your opinions. I personally think that is awesome. 

[Scrambled Aegon]

Once again, I am always delighted to read posts from you about this show. We watch this from such a different perspective that it is always refreshing to hear your opinions on things. I am more addressing your previous post than this one, but I didn't want to take up so much room in the quote column.

I thought that this was one of the best episodes of Survivor in years and this is turning out to be one of the best seasons of all time. You seem to be almost exactly opposite in your opinions. I personally think that is awesome. 

Haha, thank you very much! I agree that this thread is often very good about keeping those disagreements as just, as you say, refreshing conversations that are respectful exchanges of differing perspectives, which I appreciate and a lot of fan sites often lack. I can definitely see how this season would do more for others than it would do for me, depending on what people are watching for.

 

Also, main reason I'm commenting is because I made this. In "honor" of the new layout and everyone's favorite Survivor.

[Jace, Extat]

 So, tonight Savage fell victim to the exact same thing he was victim for in his first season 12 years ago. He was dismissive and arrogant with the people on the bottom of the totem pole. In Pearl Islands, it was Lizzy who he completely dismissed. 12 years later, it is a combination of Ciera, Abi Maria, and Wentworth. 

I still think that Wentworth is in trouble. She is surely the target if Joe wins another immunity next week. I think she will probably exit like Malcolm did after playing his idols to get rid of Sheppard. I will miss her if that happens.

 This shows have given me incredible highs and lows over the years, but when Jeff read the first vote for Savage tonight I felt like I was in Nirvana. It took me around 5 minutes to settle down from doing my happy dance. 

 

I clapped and cheered myself, cowboy. Holy shit-crap, why didn't they split the vote!?! I saw up thread someone mentioned that they were worried about a collaboration to take out Stephen, but that's a chance you take. And if it happens, at least he's someone you can afford to lose and you can immediately identify who the traitors are. Before Wiggles pulled the idol I wasn't able to get too excited because I just assumed that either 1) Ciera was the target or 2) They obviously split the votes anyways. But holy shit when they started freaking out I got excited!

I'm still sitting here dumbfounded.

I was shouting and screaming when Jeff read Savage .    Fuck yeah !! 

 

 

In a way that is all true but in another it is not.  I hate defending Savage but Ciera and Abi having it out for him wasn't what got him out. They had no idea what was happening because Wentworth didn't tell them shit.  He had 8 votes going the way he wanted and he got idol'ed.  There was literally nothing better he could have done this tribal given that Ciera, Wentworth, and Abi were already against him.

Split. The. Votes.

I'll give him that he backed down to what his tribe wanted to do, and that was the smart thing to do. But as others have pointed out he had chances to get Wiggles and Abi as allies and he blew it. I also get the feeling that it never crossed his mind that one of them might have an idol, as if they weren't worthy of the consideration.

[Scrambled Aegon]

Weak episode, weak season. Original runner-up is ignored for virtually every single episode and then we're supposed to believe she's a threat and care when she's blindsided? Alright.

 

I don't get all this talk about this being some brand new evolution unparalleled in Survivor strategy. We were seeing these same weekly flips in Pearl Islands. Burton said almost word-for-word the stuff we heard this week about how you don't have to trust someone to vote with them. This is the only time so far in the post-merge anyone has flipped, people flip on their allies all the time. Where's the evolution?

 

Next episode looks better though if it's got lots of focus on the element and maybe one of those eat-or-compete challenges.

[Howdyphillip]

 Yet again another awesome episode. I think that it was brilliant to take out Wiggles here as it allows the three guys to still keep relations with Kimi and Tasha moving forward and it takes away a number for Joe. 

 

 This is actually a fairly unique season. We have what amounts to four groups of people playing the game right now with almost everyone flexible enough to go from one group to the other in any given vote. There is nothing like a Pagonging that is going on here and it is one of the best seasons of the game to date.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

Definitely a great episode.  I was surprised.  I figured this week and the next few would be pretty boring while they got rid of the non-entities.  But everything besides who they voted out was really great.  The two main voting blocs could end up having a pretty amazing battle if they make it down to the final six.  Jeremy's two idols should ensure he's in for a while, assuming he doesn't neglect to play them.  I love that all my favorite picks from the first episode are in the two voting blocs.  

The only major nitpick I have is another freaking balance challenge.  They should have called this Season 31: Balanced in Favor of Long Haired Dude.

 

 

[Slurktan]

The only major nitpick I have is another freaking balance challenge.  They should have called this Season 31: Balanced in Favor of Long Haired Dude.

 

 

They have to do balance challenges as they are the only "physical" ones that have women getting an equal shot of winning.