Where Are Theon and Jeyne?

[Haldon Halfmaester]

This has to deal with the letter that Ramsay sent to Jon Snow about Stannis being defeated. Assuming that the letter, posted below, is actually true and that it was written by Ramsay, who do you think has Theon and Jeyne at this moment?

 

  Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.

Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.

I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.

I want my bride back. I want the false king's queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want this wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.

Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.

 

From the preview Theon chapter, we saw him being shackled up to the wall as Stannis wondered what to do with him. Do you think that Stannis could have burned Theon? Or do you think that Theon and Jeyne were rescued or taken captive by another group of people before or during the battle?

 

I am sure that Ramsay would have scowered the entire battlefield afterwards to make sure that his bride and Reek were not part of the dead. I also believe that Theon was took weak and Jeyne too frightened for them to run off themselves. So if they escaped, who do you think helped them to get away, and where would they be going?

[nickdt]

This has to deal with the letter that Ramsay sent to Jon Snow about Stannis being defeated. Assuming that the letter, posted below, is actually true who do you think has Theon and Jeyne at this moment?

 

  Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.

Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.

I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.

I want my bride back. I want the false king's queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want this wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.

Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.

 

From the preview Theon chapter, we saw him being shackled up to the wall as Stannis wondered what to do with him. Do you think that Stannis could have burned Theon? Or do you think that Theon and Jeyne were rescued or taken captive by another group of people before or during the battle?

 

I am sure that Ramsay would have scowered the entire battlefield afterwards to make sure that his bride and Reek were not part of the dead. I also believe that Theon was took weak and Jeyne too frightened for them to run off themselves. So if they escaped, who do you think helped them to get away, and where would they be going?

Ramsay didn't wrote the letter. Mance would never have told him about his son. And also, Mance being the King Beyond the Wall, sees Stannis as the false king. And how does Ramsay know the King beyond the Wall. Mance wrote the letter. The letter is full of clues. The Little Prince, The Six Whores, Reek (Mance knows who he is), while Jon does not, so Mance must think that Theon is with Jon (As part of there plan). 

 

Whoresbane Umber was near WF, he would have taken Theon and Jeyne to Stannis. 

[Haldon Halfmaester]

Ramsay didn't wrote the letter. Mance would never have told him about his son. And also, Mance being the King Beyond the Wall, sees Stannis as the false king. And how does Ramsay know the King beyond the Wall. Mance wrote the letter. The letter is full of clues. The Little Prince, The Six Whores, Reek (Mance knows who he is), while Jon does not, so Mance must think that Theon is with Jon (As part of there plan). 

 

Whoresbane Umber was near WF, he would have taken Theon and Jeyne to Stannis. 

I agree that Ramsay probably did not write the letter, but the question was centered around what would happen if the letter had been written by Ramsay, and the events described had actually happened. Then, Stannis and all of his army either destroyed, captured, or fleeing. Which means that Theon and Jeyne are most likely with someone, whether Stannis sent them somewhere with one of the Northern lords, or they used the chaos of the coming battle to flee. 

 

Seeing as Theon was locked up to the wall in Stannis' room, it is most likely that Stannis sent them somewhere safe for the time being. If so, there are many possibilities of place they may have been sent.

 

-Deepwood Motte, now recontrolled by the Glovers: Stannis just recently returned their seat of power to the family, it is not too far a ride from Winterfell, and is a highly defensible fortress when one knows the castle and surrounding woods.

 

-The Wall: a long and dangerous journey, but Stannis does have a decent group of Queen's Men there to look after something he wants kept safe. Stannis probably has no idea yet of what happened to Jon, so he still thinks he has help from the Night's Watch.

 

-The hill peoples living in the North: their animals are sure of foot and can travel relatively easily in order to get Theon away from the fighting in a hurry.

 

-Bear Island: Sending the two away with Alysane and Asha to the Mormont island would get them extremely far away from the fighting at Winterfell.  I also do not think Stannis wants a woman physically fighting for him, so would be a good excuse to get Alysane away from his war.  

 

While I do believe that the letter was a lie and probably not written by Ramsay, it is interesting to think what if.

 

From the possibilities above, what I think is more likely to happen:

           1. Deepwood Motte

           2. The Wall

           3. Some Northern stronghold not listed

           4. Northern hill people

           5. Bear Island

[aryagonnakill#2]

Leaving aside the fairly ridiculous assertion that Ramsay did not write the letter, I see no reason to think Theon is not either still with Stannis or on his way to Castle Black with Jeyne Poole, Tycho Nestoris, Justin Massey, and whatever guard Stannis assigns.

 

The timeline seems fairly simple, Freys drown, Manderlys join Stannis, some of Stannis men dress up as Freys, they bring back Karstarks head and Stannis sword and tell the Boltons they won but Theon and Jeyne were not there.

[Ser Oromus Locke]

I like that the OP starts with an assumption on regards the "truth" to the letter, as opposed to whether who the true sender of the letter is. Because I agree with Aryagonnakill#2, it is probably Ramsey who wrote the letter, but probably all of the events in the letter are false, but unknown to Ramsey.

 

I think there's a legitimate chance that Stannis made a deal with Asha, who would take Theon to the Iron Islands to revoke the Kingsmoot. For allies? Support? Most of the Ironborn haven't forgotten Lannisport I'd presume. It depends if Bran is going to interact with Stannis through the Weirnet, imo.

 

What's interesting about the letter that never really sunk in, is how it is primarily requesting what Stannis sees as kingsblood:

- His queen: Selyse Florent

- His daughter: Shireen

- Red witch: Melisandre, not of kingsblood, but when you need KB, you pretty much need her as well.

- Wildling princess: Val

- The little prince, the wildling babe: Mance's baby in Stannis' mind, but actually Gilly's baby.

- Reek: Theon Greyjoy, Prince of the Iron Islands..

 

Probably noticed now considering how Season 5 episode 9 played out. Not saying that such a scene would happen exactly the same way, but D&D did put some of it at GRRM's feet. It's as if the letter is summoning all components for a massive kingsblood ritual.

[nickdt]

I like that the OP starts with an assumption on regards the "truth" to the letter, as opposed to whether who the true sender of the letter is. Because I agree with Aryagonnakill#2, it is probably Ramsey who wrote the letter, but probably all of the events in the letter are false, but unknown to Ramsey.

 

I think there's a legitimate chance that Stannis made a deal with Asha, who would take Theon to the Iron Islands to revoke the Kingsmoot. For allies? Support? Most of the Ironborn haven't forgotten Lannisport I'd presume. It depends if Bran is going to interact with Stannis through the Weirnet, imo.

 

What's interesting about the letter that never really sunk in, is how it is primarily requesting what Stannis sees as kingsblood:

- His queen: Selyse Florent

- His daughter: Shireen

- Red witch: Melisandre, not of kingsblood, but when you need KB, you pretty much need her as well.

- Wildling princess: Val

- The little prince, the wildling babe: Mance's baby in Stannis' mind, but actually Gilly's baby.

- Reek: Theon Greyjoy, Prince of the Iron Islands..

 

Probably noticed now considering how Season 5 episode 9 played out. Not saying that such a scene would happen exactly the same way, but D&D did put some of it at GRRM's feet. It's as if the letter is summoning all components for a massive kingsblood ritual.

You forgot to include Jon. Stannis also sees him as kingsblood, since Robb was a king. A false king, in Stannis eyes, but still a king. 

 

I agree that Ramsay probably did not write the letter, but the question was centered around what would happen if the letter had been written by Ramsay, and the events described had actually happened. Then, Stannis and all of his army either destroyed, captured, or fleeing. Which means that Theon and Jeyne are most likely with someone, whether Stannis sent them somewhere with one of the Northern lords, or they used the chaos of the coming battle to flee. 

 

Seeing as Theon was locked up to the wall in Stannis' room, it is most likely that Stannis sent them somewhere safe for the time being. If so, there are many possibilities of place they may have been sent.

 

-Deepwood Motte, now recontrolled by the Glovers: Stannis just recently returned their seat of power to the family, it is not too far a ride from Winterfell, and is a highly defensible fortress when one knows the castle and surrounding woods.

 

-The Wall: a long and dangerous journey, but Stannis does have a decent group of Queen's Men there to look after something he wants kept safe. Stannis probably has no idea yet of what happened to Jon, so he still thinks he has help from the Night's Watch.

 

-The hill peoples living in the North: their animals are sure of foot and can travel relatively easily in order to get Theon away from the fighting in a hurry.

 

-Bear Island: Sending the two away with Alysane and Asha to the Mormont island would get them extremely far away from the fighting at Winterfell.  I also do not think Stannis wants a woman physically fighting for him, so would be a good excuse to get Alysane away from his war.  

 

While I do believe that the letter was a lie and probably not written by Ramsay, it is interesting to think what if.

 

From the possibilities above, what I think is more likely to happen:

           1. Deepwood Motte

           2. The Wall

           3. Some Northern stronghold not listed

           4. Northern hill people

           5. Bear Island

I don't really know about Deepwood or the Wall though, since that is likely the first two places the Boltons are gonna search for Theon. If Howland Reed is in league with the Manderlys, why not send Theon to the Neck. It is probably the last place the Boltons want to be searching. Bear Island is also a possibilitiy, and the greatest i think and there Theon and Asha can take a ship to Iron Isles, to let them know the Kingsmoot was not legite since Theon wasn't present. 

[yankee211]

I believe we are underestimating Stannis, it is a fact that he sent half his army away before the battle giving Ramsey a false sense of confidence. (check out preston jacobs season 5 ep 10 video). I don't count the shows version because D & D is just rushing everything in order to finish 7 seasons. But we will see when the book comes out.  

[aryagonnakill#2]

^What are you talking about, Stannis didn't send half his army away.

[yankee211]

^What are you talking about, Stannis didn't send half his army away.

sorry i got confuse between the book and the show. i need to read the sample chapters again

[spoon89]

I agree that Ramsay probably did not write the letter, but the question was centered around what would happen if the letter had been written by Ramsay, and the events described had actually happened. Then, Stannis and all of his army either destroyed, captured, or fleeing. Which means that Theon and Jeyne are most likely with someone, whether Stannis sent them somewhere with one of the Northern lords, or they used the chaos of the coming battle to flee. 

 

Seeing as Theon was locked up to the wall in Stannis' room, it is most likely that Stannis sent them somewhere safe for the time being. If so, there are many possibilities of place they may have been sent.

 

-Deepwood Motte, now recontrolled by the Glovers: Stannis just recently returned their seat of power to the family, it is not too far a ride from Winterfell, and is a highly defensible fortress when one knows the castle and surrounding woods.

 

-The Wall: a long and dangerous journey, but Stannis does have a decent group of Queen's Men there to look after something he wants kept safe. Stannis probably has no idea yet of what happened to Jon, so he still thinks he has help from the Night's Watch.

 

-The hill peoples living in the North: their animals are sure of foot and can travel relatively easily in order to get Theon away from the fighting in a hurry.

 

-Bear Island: Sending the two away with Alysane and Asha to the Mormont island would get them extremely far away from the fighting at Winterfell.  I also do not think Stannis wants a woman physically fighting for him, so would be a good excuse to get Alysane away from his war.  

 

While I do believe that the letter was a lie and probably not written by Ramsay, it is interesting to think what if.

 

From the possibilities above, what I think is more likely to happen:

           1. Deepwood Motte

           2. The Wall

           3. Some Northern stronghold not listed

           4. Northern hill people

           5. Bear Island

 

You missed an option and the likely one for Stannis.

 

In ADwD we learn the story of Urrathon Goodbrother/Badbrother.

 

Dagmer Cleftjaw still holds Torrhen's Square.

 

Stannis's position is greatly improved in the eyes of North when he neutralized the Ironborn at Deepwood Motte.

 

[spoiler]

Since Theon is a legal heir and not at the Kingsmoot he can contest it and require another Kingsmoot, which in the least will pull the Ironborn back to Iron Isles and may end up in a change of leadership either neutral to or supporting Stannis.

 

If Theon "escapes" (so the Northmen don't blame Stannis) and makes it to Torrhen's Square, Dagmer would likely abandon Torrhen's Square and take Theon home.

 

Aeron is looking for a way to get rid of Euron, Theon would be an answered prayer from the Drowned God for him, allowing him to call another Kingsmoot.

 

The Iron born are likely to change there minds form Euron to someone else, especially if they incur heavy losses once the Redwyne fleet and the Tyrell Host shows up in the Reach, along the Mander, during the siege of Oldtown and the Whispering Sound. 

[/spoiler]

[aryagonnakill#2]

yankee, happens to me all the time, sometimes I even confuse theories with whats in the book.

 

spoon, I have thought they would go to Torhens square before as well, if say Stannis wins a close victory and/or is wounded and needs a place to heal before marching to Winterfell, Torhens square is the perfect place to go.

 

I also think Theon will overturn the kingsmoot after Euron is defeated/killed at Oldtown.

[spoon89]

yankee, happens to me all the time, sometimes I even confuse theories with whats in the book.

 

spoon, I have thought they would go to Torhens square before as well, if say Stannis wins a close victory and/or is wounded and needs a place to heal before marching to Winterfell, Torhens square is the perfect place to go.

 

I also think Theon will overturn the kingsmoot after Euron is defeated/killed at Oldtown.

 

There is no reason to overturn the kingmoot if Euron is dead, they just call another one. Overturning the kingsmoot only makes sense if Euron is alive and still king.

[Steven_P_McVey]

Is it me or was the last we recall from theon / jeyne is when they ride into stannis's frozen camp w/ ashas remaining seamen and see asha / Massey and that dickhead Knight. And theon asks asha if she remembers him, as theon greyjoy. Nothing beyond that.

[girlfrommonday]

Is it me or was the last we recall from theon / jeyne is when they ride into stannis's frozen camp w/ ashas remaining seamen and see asha / Massey and that dickhead Knight. And theon asks asha if she remembers him, as theon greyjoy. Nothing beyond that.

 

GRRM published one Theon Chapter from the next book on his website, back in 2012 (as a christmas gift for the fans, if I remember correctly).

[Haldon Halfmaester]

Is it me or was the last we recall from theon / jeyne is when they ride into stannis's frozen camp w/ ashas remaining seamen and see asha / Massey and that dickhead Knight. And theon asks asha if she remembers him, as theon greyjoy. Nothing beyond that.

Yes, the preview Winds chapter was the last interaction we had with Theon. But the Bastard Letter claimed that Stannis was defeated, so there is the possibility that the events we come across at Winterfell and the Wall do not happen in chronological order. So one of the first big things we could see in Winds is the demise of Stannis, and a Bolton win leading to what was sent to Jon.

 

I want to believe that Stannis will be victorious and that the letter was written before fighting ever took place, but there still is a chance that the letter was genuinely written by Ramsay after Stannis lost.

[A Ghost of Someone]

We do not know how far if at all they get away from Stannis's encampment before the first wave of attackers reach them. It is very ambiguous.

[yankee211]

Yes, the preview Winds chapter was the last interaction we had with Theon. But the Bastard Letter claimed that Stannis was defeated, so there is the possibility that the events we come across at Winterfell and the Wall do not happen in chronological order. So one of the first big things we could see in Winds is the demise of Stannis, and a Bolton win leading to what was sent to Jon.

 

I want to believe that Stannis will be victorious and that the letter was written before fighting ever took place, but there still is a chance that the letter was genuinely written by Ramsay after Stannis lost.

That letter is a mystery, I just don't understand why Ramsey is interested in Val & Mance's son. I understand wanting Sylese and Shareen, and i honestly believe if Mance is captured and if he is tortured, he is too stubborn to give up info on his son. 

[Whitering]

Mance doesn't have to fear for his son...well, Mel probably didn't tell him that his son is in Oldtown, so ya, I mean, he does have to fear for him, but not from Ramsay...someone as bad?...but at least Euron has a sense of humour I guess.

[zalim]

letter is written by mance, theon is still a prisoner or escaped the war zone. 

Jeyne is def. safe and sound.

[yankee211]

letter is written by mance, theon is still a prisoner or escaped the war zone. 

Jeyne is def. safe and sound.

I hope your right, Mance's fate in Theon's last chapter is interesting since he and I believe three other spearwiives was in the great hall during the escape. It would suck if he is just captured without any pay off. But Ramsey is a lot clever than people give him credit, Even Stannis doubt his lack of war experience in Theon's sample chapter.