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Why do people assume the FM are anti-slavery when they took a contract from Euron?


Ocelot

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The FM supposedly originate w/ slaves in the Valyrian mines. True no doubt, but a lot of theories I've read about the current FM seem to assume that they're still actively anti-slavery. That can't be true, or they wouldn't have taken a contract from Euron Greyjoy, a known slaver and all-around monster. The fact that they would take a contract from Euron, and for payment (probably his dragon's egg), shows that they are at best amoral, as they must have known Euron's character and record. Assassinating Balon & thus paving the way for Euron to become King of the IB has already led to many people being newly enslaved, and probably will lead to more, and that's just a fraction of the (entirely predictable) destruction Euron will bring about, especially if he steals a dragon, which the FM must have known was his goal. What do you think?

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Nobody knows the whole truth behind the FM.

 

First time Arya met Jaquen after the 3 deaths "to the red god" He told her that she could learn how to kill to, but she would have to go with him. And if she did she could cross the rest of the names off her list (Cersei, Illyn Payne etc). Made it seem she could learn how to be a bad ass killer and get revenge on everyone who has wronged her.

 

Then when she gets to the house of black and white she learns that you have to become nobody and cant kill anyone you want, everyone and everything in your past life is gone. So how the heck would she get her revenge etc if she had to forget who she is? She went there on false pretenses as it. They do look like hypocrites on certain things. Maybe the first time they met GRRM wrote it the way he did and then changed his mind as time went on? But yea as is nobody knows for sure what their whole deal is. Maybe they work with the iron bank and kill people who dont pay, maybe they want to learn best way to kill dragons who knows

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Balon was technically a slaver too but I agree that while the origin of the faceless was at least somewhat idealistic they don't really care who they assassinate these days, as the kindly man also said that it was not for them to judge if it was right or wrong to kill the target.

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There is a theory that the FM work for the IB. But the IB are bankrolling Stannis in hopes of him repaying the IT's debt, whereas the FM took a contract from Euron who will be yet another obstacle to Stannis gaining the IT. It's possible that Euron will temporarily take the IT, in which case there's NO WAY he's paying the IT's debts. Your opinion?

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What's more of a threat to the world an idiot slaving pirate or an idiot slaving pirate with a dragon?  "A man wants us to kill an idiot slaving pirate for the price of his dragon egg".  For some reason I don't think the FM would pass on a lovely job like this ever.

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It's a good deal for the faceless men.

 

1. They get rid of a dragon egg. The reason they were formed was to free slaves from the Valyrian dragonlords. Thus preventing more dragons from being born is beneficial.

 

2. Killing Balon will not lead to a drastic change in Ironborn behavior. All ironborn are effectively slavers anyway.

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There is a theory that the FM work for the IB. But the IB are bankrolling Stannis in hopes of him repaying the IT's debt, whereas the FM took a contract from Euron who will be yet another obstacle to Stannis gaining the IT. It's possible that Euron will temporarily take the IT, in which case there's NO WAY he's paying the IT's debts. Your opinion?

 

They took Eurons business on one kill. The Iron Bank is agreeing to give Stannis a crap ton of money to get him on the throne. The Ships, food, sell swords etc he will need will be a very high $ #. With giving Stannis that much money they will want back along with the $ they want that the crown owes already from Stannis is much more essential to them then one guy the FM did one kill for. (A kill that can still be debated, the clues are there but we still dont know for a fact it was a FM).

 

The bank on the other hand we do know is for sure agreeing business with Stannis

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Did they have no idea that Euron intended to steal one of Dany's dragons, and quite possibly has the means to do so?

 

They can always send an FM to Oldtown to do away with Euron for anyone willing to pay the price, or better yet, off his dragon... That'd be one less dragon for camp Dany, and Euron without a dragon.... Oh, right, they have someone already there.

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Do we even know for sure that the Faceless Men killed Balon and if they did, they did it through contract with Euron and if it was, what were the actual terms of the deal.

 

Heck, I'm not even sure what the usual modus operandi is as to who they choose to help and how they agree on a "price".  They don't seem like a "higest bidder" outfit.  If I remember right, they hold some kind of counsel of what must be high ranking FM to determine these things (they did one to see who would kill the ship insurer guy IIRC).

 

Still a lot of unknowns with this group. 

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The Faceless Men would not exist as a famed assassins guild if they only took contracts from nice people. And they started as a means of slaves escaping their pain, which if we're going to be pendantic does not firmly establish them as anti-slavery.

A lot of people seem to think that being based in Braavos makes the FM an extension of Braavosi society, when in reality it's just the safest place to work out of (tons of international connections, never been seriously attacked, etc.)
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The FM are anti-slavery in general but they do have to make a living.

 

 

1) we have aboslutely no evidence that FM accepted a contact from Euron

2) FM killed for their GOD, they accept a contract according to some religous rule, that has nothing to do with their feeling toward slavery

You might want to reread the Ghost of High Heart chapter where she talks about a crow with one eye and a man with no face in relation to a king/kraken being killed.  Also Euron claims he threw a dragon egg into the sea.  That's utter BS, but he could have used it to pay the FM in Braavos which to him might be just as good as throwing it into the sea.

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1) we have aboslutely no evidence that FM accepted a contact from Euron
2) FM killed for their GOD, they accept a contract according to some religous rule, that has nothing to do with their feeling toward slavery

"I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings"

Balon falls to his death from the bridge on Pyke.A Faceless man does it and a drowned crow (Euron is crows eye and is Ironborn so he's a drowned crow and the seaweed further shows a connection to the sea)So yea a FM did kill Balon and Euron would never toss a dragon egg into the sea.


Also the FM accept a contract once a certain price has been paid.That price can be anything.
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I don't think Euron was a slaver until he was crowned.
Can the FM refuse a customer? When someone prays to the god of death, and pays, i dont think the many faced god can refuse?

 

Yes he was. He was sailing all across the seas taking slaves for his ship crew and cutting all the tongues out of everyone on board. Then named his boat "the silence"

 

And yes FM can refuse. If somebody doesnt have the price value of what they ask for then they can deny the contract

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The FM are anti-slavery in general but they do have to make a living.

 

 

You might want to reread the Ghost of High Heart chapter where she talks about a crow with one eye and a man with no face in relation to a king/kraken being killed.  Also Euron claims he threw a dragon egg into the sea.  That's utter BS, but he could have used it to pay the FM in Braavos which to him might be just as good as throwing it into the sea.

 

Actually, I think it's not BS that Euron threw the dragon egg into the sea. I think that's actually the truth. That it was exactly the price the FM asked of him - sacrifice your dragon egg for the drowned god. Dragon egg at the bottom of the ocean won't hatch any live dragon soon, no matter which person with dragonblood crawls out of the woodwork at the opportune time of a comet passing. That's at least one potential dragon less the FM need to worry about. They're not gonna sell the egg. The lie in Euron's words is that he didn't care about a dragon egg. Of course he cared. He wants a dragon. He says it right after he's mightily disappointed and obviously disgusted with the IB not being interested in anything grander than raiding some islands of the Reach. You can almost read him thinking "Is that the bunch I tossed my dragon egg for into the sea? Hopeless!" He's irritated, but he's unwilling to admit it pained him, so he suddenly mentions it to Vic, and turning it into a boast.

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I don't think Euron was a slaver until he was crowned.
Can the FM refuse a customer? When someone prays to the god of death, and pays, i dont think the many faced god can refuse?

 

The FM determine the price. If they don't want to kill the target, they make the price so costly, they know the prayer will refuse. How did they know the stepmother of the waif intended to kill her? Because the stepmother asked, and she wasn't willing to pay the price. The real greedy people always prefer a bargain. A stepmother intent on having her stepdaughter killed for the possible inheritance for her own children, isn't gonna want to pay a high price at all. Just like LF isn't gonna pay a price when you can buy 2 sellsword armies for it. Next thing the waif was poisoned, but saved and the father tipped off about the fact his wife was behind it. He was willing to pay the price to the FM for them to kill the stepmother - the waif and half his possessions. If you think about it that was a very reasonable price. The waif was physically harmed because of the poison attempt. She could never make a proper match and would be taunted all her life. With the FM the waif has a life free of that and a status. The waif was to inherit anyway, which was why the stepmother attempted to kill her. So, the price of the FM for the waif was - we'll take her in, and she'll have a purposeful life to find pride in, without harrassment and you give half of your inheritance along. The rest is for your other children.

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Actually, I think it's not BS that Euron threw the dragon egg into the sea. I think that's actually the truth. That it was exactly the price the FM asked of him - sacrifice your dragon egg for the drowned god. Dragon egg at the bottom of the ocean won't hatch any live dragon soon, no matter which person with dragonblood crawls out of the woodwork at the opportune time of a comet passing. That's at least one potential dragon less the FM need to worry about. They're not gonna sell the egg. The lie in Euron's words is that he didn't care about a dragon egg. Of course he cared. He wants a dragon. He says it right after he's mightily disappointed and obviously disgusted with the IB not being interested in anything grander than raiding some islands of the Reach. You can almost read him thinking "Is that the bunch I tossed my dragon egg for into the sea? Hopeless!" He's irritated, but he's unwilling to admit it pained him, so he suddenly mentions it to Vic, and turning it into a boast.

The FM take the price themselves. That's how they got the Waif.  Her father was not told to sacrifice her to the god they followed.

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