Orphalesion Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Okay I will admit this question never actually presented itself to me when I was actually reading the books. But now looking back; with House Baratheon dead/exiled (except for Tommen and Myrcella) who is the current Lord Paramount of The Stormlands? Seems like an awfully big position to allow in a power vacuum...The Riverlands and the North got their new Lords Paramount pretty quickly (though it could be argued that Littlefinger is pretty negligent in his position as L and if Cersei was smarter she might wonder what he's doing in the Vale instead of preparing his war torn region for winter) , why not the Stormlands? The only reason or this I can think of is to save the Stormlands for a hypothetical second son of Tommen to inherit. Likewise I am a bit confused about who the current Lord Paramount of the Westerlands/Lord of Casterly Rock/Head of House Lannister is. I am aware Kevan just died at the very end of FFCDWD so I'm hoping we will see some internal Lannister strife as several "minor" Lannister lines try to pry Casterly Rock out of Cersei's hands. Though who has the best claim to do so? Daven (he's warden of the West now irrc)? Damon? Martyn? Will this potential strife cause House lannister's eventual fall from prominence (they are to numerous to go extinct imho) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Kings Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Good Question. I was wondering that as well. But I think its under the jurisdiction of the crown directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettes Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 The stormlands belong to the Baratheons I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryLittleGravitasIndeed Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Tommen for Stormlands and Cersei for Westerlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Cersei is the lady of Casterly Rock and therefore overlord of the Westerlands, I would imagine Tommen is the lord of Storm's End in name or would have been made so when Mace captured the castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Interesting, that could get dangerous for the Lannisters/Baratheons of King's Landing if the other Lords Paramount decide that too much power is centralized under them. Something all of their (present and future) enemies could use against them to gather support. Also can a woman be Lord Paramount (outside of Dorne)? I'd expect the various male Lannister cousins to grumble about that, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Cersei is for the West, and I'm guessing on paper Tommen is for the Stormlands, though Stannis holds SE and no doubt claims to be Lord Paramount as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBrightflameII Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Tommen for Stormlands and Cersei for Westerlands. :agree: :agree: Dorne -Martell Stormlands - Tommen Westerlands - Cersei Riverlands - Littlefinger (LOL) Vale - Littlefinger/ Lords Declarant. Reach - Tyrells North - Boltons (Supposedly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Naufragus Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Lord Paramont is just an honorary title. Its a military role and not a "king" though its been a de facto king. The Lord Paramount is simply like Patton in Europe and MacArthur in the Pacific. Likely Mace Tyrell is still LP. Cersai is NOT LP she is just Lady of CR. My guess is Kevan. But its very likely when the War Started the LPs became a bit irrelevant. The LP doesn't have to be the lord of CR or Storms End of Winterfell. Like Littlefinger is LP of the Riverlands but his seat is HH which he doesn't even hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Lord Paramont is just an honorary title. Its a military role and not a "king" though its been a de facto king. The Lord Paramount is simply like Patton in Europe and MacArthur in the Pacific. Likely Mace Tyrell is still LP. Cersai is NOT LP she is just Lady of CR. My guess is Kevan. But its very likely when the War Started the LPs became a bit irrelevant. The LP doesn't have to be the lord of CR or Storms End of Winterfell. Like Littlefinger is LP of the Riverlands but his seat is HH which he doesn't even hold. The Lord Paramount=the ruling Great Lord. You may be thinking of the Warden positions. Littlefinger holds Harrenhal. He just hasn't been there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Greenleif Stark Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Bolton = Warden of the North Tyrells = Warden of the South ? Cersei = Warden of the West ? Jaime = Warden of the East ? Is that correct? The 3 with "?" I'm unsure of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Cersei named Devan Warden of the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Bolton = Warden of the North Tyrells = Warden of the South ? Cersei = Warden of the West ? Jaime = Warden of the East ? Is that correct? The 3 with "?" I'm unsure of Tywin officially gave the Warden of East title back to the Arryns for staying out the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Greenleif Stark Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Ok, thanks for clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 There might be some uncertainty as to what title or lack thereof Cersei might have at this time. She is the Queen Mother to Tommen, but before Kevan died he and the Tyrells may have opposed the idea of her continuing to be the Lady of the Rock. Kevan did confirm that she was Lady of the Rock in AFFC (when she poured her wine on him) but it might have been possible to use his power as regent to strict her of the title behind her back (his rational being that if the title falls to Tommen the Lannister name wouldn't continue). He did make a point during Cersei's walk that no one tied to the Lannister name would be a witness to it, so as to not "sully" the honor of Casterly Rock. (There is no confirmation of this, just something I think has a faint hint). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Lord Paramont is just an honorary title. Its a military role and not a "king" though its been a de facto king. The Lord Paramount is simply like Patton in Europe and MacArthur in the Pacific. No. A Lord Paramount is the military and civilian administrator of one of the Seven Kingdoms (+Riverlands). A lord paramount is charged with overseeing the economic developments in his region (taxes, harvests etc.) keep the King's peace and respond to foreign and domestic threats. Westeros is a feudal state. The King can't be everywhere at once and often only hears about crucial developments days or even weeks after the fact, he has to give over local power and responsibility to lords that can be present because they live there, those are the Lords Paramount/Great Houses. But even each of the seven kingdoms is too large for one family to administrate and defend on their own so they in turn relinquish portions of their power to their bannermen and so it goes further down and down, like a giant pyramid scheme until we reach the knightly houses at the bottom who only really have power over their own hold-fasts and maybe a hamlet or two. Hence the importence of Lord Paramounts; they are needed as administrators and as parts of the traditional power structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 There might be some uncertainty as to what title or lack thereof Cersei might have at this time. She is the Queen Mother to Tommen, but before Kevan died he and the Tyrells may have opposed the idea of her continuing to be the Lady of the Rock. Kevan did confirm that she was Lady of the Rock in AFFC (when she poured her wine on him) but it might have been possible to use his power as regent to strict her of the title behind her back (his rational being that if the title falls to Tommen the Lannister name wouldn't continue). He did make a point during Cersei's walk that no one tied to the Lannister name would be a witness to it, so as to not "sully" the honor of Casterly Rock. (There is no confirmation of this, just something I think has a faint hint). I think Cersei is still Lady of the Westerlands I don't think Keven or the Tyrells can just strip her of this title because Tywin never named a heir and since Jaime have rebutted the Rock and Tywin wanted for killing the king and Hand Cersei automatically is heir. Keven being able to not have any Lannister men with Cersei during her walk is because Cersei had no control over communication and therefore could not call any men to her during her inprisonment. The Westermen if called by Cersei would have had to come because she's their leige unless some don't listen to her and automatically think of Keven as their leige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Naufragus Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yes I was confusing warden and Paramont. IIRC Kevan wants to ship Cersai back to CR ASAP but then everything depends on her trial which could find Tommen an abomination of incest. The Wiki says the Freys are LP of the Riverlands. Stannis is technically the Stormlands but is in rebellion so its claimed by Tommen. With Tyrion gone technically Tommen has the Westlands as well but it seems like Cesai either just gave it to herself or its just a courtsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yes I was confusing warden and Paramont. IIRC Kevan wants to ship Cersai back to CR ASAP but then everything depends on her trial which could find Tommen an abomination of incest. The Wiki says the Freys are LP of the Riverlands. Stannis is technically the Stormlands but is in rebellion so its claimed by Tommen. With Tyrion gone technically Tommen has the Westlands as well but it seems like Cesai either just gave it to herself or its just a courtsy The Freys aren't when Genna's Frey husband was talking about since he was now lord of Riverrun that made him the LP Jaime corrected him and said it was now Littlefinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Naufragus Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I'm just saying what the wiki says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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