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The Ghost In Winterfell Tied to LSH?


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Hi all!  This is my first thread here, so go easy on me.

 

One of the mysteries in this series that's always intrigued me is the man that comes across Theon in The Ghost of Winterfell.  I've seen plenty of theories (one very believable one being that he's Hallis Mollen: Source)

 

However, during my recent reread, I thought of something else...what if he's affiliated with Lady Stoneheart and the former Brotherhood WIthout Banners?  The only kill we can [probably] give him credit for is Little Walder, who is both a Frey and close to Ramsay Bolton.

 

In aFfC, we see many members of the brotherhood's members through Brienne and we learn that LSH has placed Tom o' Sevens in Ser Ryman Frey's camp.  He reports on the going's on there and [we can assume] helps the brotherhood set up an ambush that leads to Ser Ryman Frey's death.

 

All of this got me to wondering...why hasn't LSH placed an agent in Bolton territory?  There are more Freys up there and her 'daughter' is being married off to the notorious Ramsay Bolton.  It's true that as LSH, she seems to be more centered around vengeance and killing than salvation and rescue, but you'd still think she'd want to investigate that.

 

Harwin would be the natural choice, but unfortunately Theon disproves him in his very next chapter Theon (Pg . 681): "They were all dead now.  Jory, old Ser Rodrik, Lord Eddard, Harwin and Hullen, Cayn and Desmond and Fat Tom, Alyn with his dreams of knighthood, Mikken who had given him his first Sword.  Even Old Nan, like as not."

 

Lem Lemoncloak is a possibility, but the colour of his cloak and his broken nose are always mentioned when he's being described and they're absent here.  Theon does tend to ignore facial descriptions, but the colour of the cloak is also completely absent.  If he'd been wearing the hound helm (idiotic for a stealth mission), that would have been commented on as well.  Lastly, he just doesn't seem like the stealthy type and I'm not sure he could even travel that distance while skirting the Twins in the small amount of time between The Ghost of Winterfell and the end of aFfC.

 

Anguy and Edric Dayne are noticably absent in aFfC from Brienne's perspective.  It's worth noting that Little Walder's murder doesn't seem to have involved a bow and arrow.  For this reason, my money's on Edric...or one of the other brotherhood members we don't know much about.

 

So....thoughts?

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I think it has to be someone who knows Winterfell very well. That would probably rule out Lem Lemoncloak. He was in service to Lemonwood, I believe, hence the yellow cloak.

 

I don't think Theon's assumption that Harwin is dead is correct or proof of anything. However, he is present when Brienne is hanged, so I believe he is very much alive. And possibly if Brienne were pressed into LSH's service, then he would be an excellent choice given what we know about Brienne's arc from the show, i.e., she is likely heading to Winterfell.

 

It seems like a pretty solid theory that Harwin went with Brienne and Pod to Winterfell. Brienne had some specific orders to exact revenge on the Boltons, and on the way there she will discover Sansa, who is now an open secret in the Vale.  

 

I also suspect that there's something a little more mystical about the BwB - that Thoros has (perhaps unwittingly) given them some ability to glamour themselves or some magical hiding ability. 

 

Hallis Mollen is another good theory. It seems to me that he did get Ned's bones in the crypt as evidenced by Bran's dreams. Probably after the sack and before the Bolton's reclaimed it for good. I think the book gave some lip service to Ramsay running off the squatters who had taken residence in Winterfell. Mollen could have been one of those squatters and avoided Ramsay's searches. 

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As I said, I don't think Lem Lemoncloak would be the culprit.  The odds are definitely stacked against him.  If I was putting money on one of the BWB, I'd put it on Edric Dayne or one of the others we know very little about.

 

 

I don't think Theon's assumption that Harwin is dead is correct or proof of anything.

 

I agree that he probably isn't dead, but it makes it very unlikely that he's the man with the hooded cloak Theon saw one chapter before.  If Theon had just seen him recently, why would he assume he was dead?

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As I said, I don't think Lem Lemoncloak would be the culprit.  The odds are definitely stacked against him.  If I was putting money on one of the BWB, I'd put it on Edric Dayne or one of the others we know very little about.

 

 

I agree that he probably isn't dead, but it makes it very unlikely that he's the man with the hooded cloak Theon saw one chapter before.  If Theon had just seen him recently, why would he assume he was dead?

 

Because he didn't recognize him. As previously stated Theon isn't the best at recognizing people. And I suspect the BwB is either glamoured or disguised much of the time. 

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Correct me if i am wrong did Edric left the BWB because Beric dead and would he travel back to Starfall. Also, I like the idea of Hollis in Winterfell and Tom with the Frey camp in the riverlands. BWB do not have the numbers to defeat the freys and boltons, so they have certain BWB infiltrate their enemies, it make sense. Take in to account in the riverlands that the wolf pac is still around possibly helping LSH sense Nymeria took her body from the river. Sense Jaime is off with Brieene without his army, i persnally believe the river lords go against the Lannisters and especially the Freys.  

 

Geographically, i don't know how would any of the BWB would go pass the Twins without being recognize if they seek from Seagaurd by sea.    

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I have read some good theories that Lem is in fact Richard Lonmouth and that the Hooded man in Winterfell is Hallis Mollen/Septon Chayle

 

The Septon Chayle theory is quite interesting.  Thanks for bringing it up!

 

 

Correct me if i am wrong did Edric left the BWB because Beric dead and would he travel back to Starfall.

 

I believe the Edric Dayne is listed as still being a member of LSH's group, but with unknown whereabouts.

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Geographically, i don't know how would any of the BWB would go pass the Twins without being recognize if they seek from Seagaurd by sea.    

 

Why do you think passing the Twins is necessary for a single person or a small band? It's necessary for an army, most likely. But Even Robb says he can go around. It would just cost him time. 

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The Septon Chayle theory is quite interesting.  Thanks for bringing it up!

 

 

I believe the Edric Dayne is listed as still being a member of LSH's group, but with unknown whereabouts.

you sure, i believe some of the members left because they did not agree with LSH act of vengeance 

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