Doremus Coldwater Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 So as you well know, there have been plenty of complaints about how Season 5's Winterfell storyline has been made far more Ramsay-centric than in the books, to the detriment of other characters. This tally of characters' screentime shows him having almost as much screentime as Jaime, more than Littlefinger, significantly more than Theon, Brienne or Davos, and twice as much as Roose(!). Many have blamed the showrunners for simply showing undue favouritism towards a charcter/actor they like. While this may be part of it, I think the main reason is simpler: They were running out of prominent villains/antagonists, and needed to upgrade someone to fill the gap. For the first four seasons of the show, the most prominent villains (both in terms of screentime and viewer attention were Joffrey and Tywin. By the end of season 4, they're both dead. Sandor - another prominent villain/antagonist - is also MIA, while Lysa (who filled a similar role, only more fleetingly) is also dead. Gregor spends 98% of the season strapped to a table. Jaime was a prominent antagonist for two-and-a-bit seasons, but clearly doesn't fill that role any longer. Cersei? Well, despite the whitewashing, I'd say the showrunners and majority of the viewers still consider her villainous. At the same time, with Sansa, Tyrion and Jaime all gone, she is also plainly the protagonist of the KL storyline, and as such can't really fill the villain/antagonist role. Dany's arc has always relied on episodic antagonists, but in Season 5 we're left with literally faceless adversariers with zero characterization or screen presence. Arya's arc is also short of specific villains (hence the addition and blackwashing of Meryn Trant, and the hostility of the Waif). All of this means that if the showrunners want the show to have prominent villains who generate viewer interest and "buzz" (and they probably do), they needed to upgrade someone else to more prominence. Of course, it's not as if the show was devoid of other villains/antagonists (Littlefinger, Thorne, the White Walkers, Roose, Melisandre), but they needed to pick someone to take Joffrey's/Tywin's place as the "Big Bad", and they ended up going for Ramsay (as well upgrading Myranda as his sidekick, and adding in Fauxllaria and the Sand Snakes). And when the night comes alive with the music of butterflies..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Giving Ramsey screen time is one thing but "20 good men" is another. Lets look at this way say in the books Stannis wins were is his next logical target? The RL and who's in the RL? Walder Frey who the audince still hates. So why not have Roose and Ramsey bite in in the finale and have Walder carry the villian role for season 6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spilt Pea Soup Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Because the pink letter is a lame plot device, which is to say it is true. Stannis is dead in the books, so he is dead in the show. The denial is strong around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I think with Joffrey and Tywin dead, the feal that Ramsay was the new uber bad boy and that is why they gave him Sansa and left the rape in the original story except Sansa for Jeyne. They dare because we care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Because the pink letter is a lame plot device, which is to say it is true. Stannis is dead in the books, so he is dead in the show. The denial is strong around here. If he is dead then how can he ok Shireen's burning like D&D said he will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spilt Pea Soup Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 They didn't say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 If he is dead then how can he ok Shireen's burning like D&D said he will? Don't try to argue. If anything, some of these show!folk are more dedicated to their point of view than the Stanstans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOrLess Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Honestly I would say a bit of the reverse, the weakness of Ramsey this season is that whilst he gets a good deal of screentime he's really still just driving Theon, Sansa and Stannis's stories. Joffery made for an effective villain because he was actually challenged by Tyrion and Tywin a good deal, if he'd just been tormenting a helpless Sansa and an enemy for Robb it wouldn't have made for nearly so effective a story. We saw a small amount of tension between Roose and Ramsey but at this stage it really didn't amount to much and Sansa herself never really challenged him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Because the pink letter is a lame plot device, which is to say it is true. Stannis is dead in the books, so he is dead in the show. The denial is strong around here. Stannis is dead in the books? No chance he's dead yet. He's likely to die fighting for the throne or others in twow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doremus Coldwater Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Honestly I would say a bit of the reverse, Well, I never said they succeeded in promoting Ramsay to prime villain - I just said that was what they tried to achieve (without succeeding very well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatrineDiggerBrian Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 How do you see Cersei as the protagonist of Kings Landing on the show? I think (on the show) if there is a protagonist in Kings Landing it's the Tyrell's though overall I think there really isn't a main one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 How do you see Cersei as the protagonist of Kings Landing on the show? I think (on the show) if there is a protagonist in Kings Landing it's the Tyrell's though overall I think there really isn't a main one. Protagonists aren't necessarily the good guys. Protagonists are the main characters, whether they are good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashless Society Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Euron Crow's Eye should have been the main villain for this season. They should have also added Shavepate & Galazza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashless Society Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 How do you see Cersei as the protagonist of Kings Landing on the show? I think (on the show) if there is a protagonist in Kings Landing it's the Tyrell's though overall I think there really isn't a main one. Villain-protagonist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Euron Crow's Eye should have been the main villain for this season. They should have also added Shavepate & Galazza. I'd have added the shavepate and kept barristan angel and devil for dany like stannis had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Stoneheart Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 They really underuse Roose Bolton. The actor is great, and the character is mysterious, and sinister. I don't know why they continue to showcase Ramsay--he is one note, and quite tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 They really underuse Roose Bolton. The actor is great, and the character is mysterious, and sinister. I don't know why they continue to showcase Ramsay--he is one note, and quite tedious. Agreed. I think the scene between Roose and Littlefinger proved that Lord Bolton can be dangerous no matter who you pair him with, and yet he just sat there being passive so Ramsay could look so much more active. I get them wanting to develop another strong villain, and I really sympathize with their efforts to make a real character out of the cartoon character Ramsay is in the books. But it was a classic example of the show taking a decent idea and beating it death, then flaying it, then raping the corpse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashless Society Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I'd have added the shavepate and kept barristan angel and devil for dany like stannis had It works better with Galazza, as there's a parallel with MMD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion I Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I think with Joffrey and Tywin dead, the feal that Ramsay was the new uber bad boy and that is why they gave him Sansa and left the rape in the original story except Sansa for Jeyne. They dare because we care. How would you have done it then? Agreed. I think the scene between Roose and Littlefinger proved that Lord Bolton can be dangerous no matter who you pair him with, and yet he just sat there being passive so Ramsay could look so much more active. I get them wanting to develop another strong villain, and I really sympathize with their efforts to make a real character out of the cartoon character Ramsay is in the books. But it was a classic example of the show taking a decent idea and beating it death, then flaying it, then raping the corpse. Show!Roose is more a watcher IMO. Except for the RW of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 How would you have done it then? Have Littlefinger reach out to Roose for allies as Roose was in need. Have Myranda or another girl pose as "Arya Stark" who was not wanted by the crown being married off to Ramsay and Littlefinger, bringing his baseborn daughter "Alayne" as a guest with him and a small contingent of knights as guards. Actually have some Northern lords there with hostages / kin at the twins so they HAVE to be there. Littlefinger and Sansa's interest will be in seeing if it really is Arya? Sansa would be covert and protected as "Alayne" approach Reek and find out about her brothers that way etc. Truly, the storyline leading up to the rape of Sansa made no sense from littlefinger's prespective, nor Sansa's but she really did not have a choice. Once Littlefinger got her out of the Vale, she was essentually "kidnapped" and was sold / traded off like one of his prostitutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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