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Rant & Rave Without Repercussion s 5 continued [book spoilers]


kissdbyfire

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The previous R&R was getting too long, so we'll continue here.

Quoting Ran:

The topic of the thread is discussing things you disliked about the episode. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if he normal rules of the forum do not apply. Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand -- this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked.
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Well as I said in the now locked thread the news about the Northern lords being cast next season can mean one of two things: the North rebels independently from the Boltens (a. Why are they taking so long because the beginning of season 5 has to be months after the end of 4 because their is no way Stannis could have heard Tywin being died the next day no raven flys the fast or long, b. Why not do it during the siege when it makes the most sense for Roose to let Northern armies into WF and he is his most vulnerable?) or they join LF (a. Why in gods name would they tell Stannis a guy who never wronged them and Ned supported to f-off but with LF a guy who according to the Vale is viewed as so pro-Lannister he licks Twyins boots they will develop the "hey desperate times call for desperate measures" attitude? b. emphasises A why in gods name would they support LF over Stannis?!) So I fear what has this season and will happen nexy season in the North will be the ultimate "creatively it made sense because we wanted it" decision by D&D

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One of the things I really despised about this season is the treatment of religion. Of course, the sloppy treatment goes back seasons (Robb the Northman and Talisa of Essos being married in a Sept rite, Mel being more political fixer than zealot, even boasting to Selyse n that vile bath scene about how she uses potions to keep herself looking hot..). You'd think in world where there's MAGIC (walking dead, face-changing, warging, DRAGONS) there'd be at least a somewhat respectful inclusion and treatment of faith. Instead we got the Westboro Sparrows busting up wine kegs and locking up gays. It was like a cartoon. Where the show could have included a look at religion, it's either failed to do so entirely (Sansa married in the godswood, but where was the heart tree?) or made it ridiculous. 

 

At least in the books religion was treated with some, for want of a better word, REVERENCE. 

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I have no idea where they're going with the northern lords next year, but my bet is LF will rally the northern lords/clans. And it makes absolutely zero sense, so that's probably what's going to happen. They'll keep butchering dead Stannis by giving his plot to LF.
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I have no idea where they're going with the northern lords next year, but my bet is LF will rally the northern lords/clans. And it makes absolutely zero sense, so that's probably what's going to happen. They'll keep butchering dead Stannis by giving his plot to LF.

 

Batfinger will totally find a way to "woo" the Northern Lords. 

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Batfinger will totally find a way to "woo" the Northern Lords.


Well, in a scenario where Sansa and Theon are rescued by LF, he'll use the argument 'this is what the Boltons have done to Ned Stark's daughter, we must destroy them'. Although I think it's more likely that Sansa will be recaptured by Ramsay because I don't see them giving up on their torture porn so easily, and then that's the argument he'll use. *sigh*
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Well, in a scenario where Sansa and Theon are rescued by LF, he'll use the argument 'this is what the Boltons have done to Ned Stark's daughter, we must destroy them'. Although I think it's more likely that Sansa will be recaptured by Ramsay because I don't see them giving up on their torture porn so easily, and then that's the argument he'll use. *sigh*

 

Nah.  I doubt she's recaptured, and really, there wasn't any torture porn involved in Sansa's story.

 

LF is a lock though to ride North and save the day and liberate WF with the Vale lords.  However, this may happen in the books, only it will be Harry and Sansa instead of LF who are doing it.

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Well, in a scenario where Sansa and Theon are rescued by LF, he'll use the argument 'this is what the Boltons have done to Ned Stark's daughter, we must destroy them'. Although I think it's more likely that Sansa will be recaptured by Ramsay because I don't see them giving up on their torture porn so easily, and then that's the argument he'll use. *sigh*

 

And then someone will say that there was a point to the rape. Because betraying and murdering Robb Star, the King in the North, and his mother Lady Stark, was not enough for the Northern lords to care. :dunno:

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Nah.  I doubt she's recaptured, and really, there wasn't any torture porn involved in Sansa's story.

 

LF is a lock though to ride North and save the day and liberate WF with the Vale lords.  However, this may happen in the books, only it will be Harry and Sansa instead of LF who are doing it.

No, I think in the books the Boltons are doomed to the surrounding forces there and possibly other forces with Glover, Davos and Rickon. Rickon coming back into the open will change Littlefinger's plans for Sansa in the books as he cannot use her to claim Winterfell. In the show, it may be a convergence of forces North and Vale that hit Winterfell but I cannot see them coming to blows against each other. This will be littlefinger's last season and Sansa will be his undoing.

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Nah.  I doubt she's recaptured, and really, there wasn't any torture porn involved in Sansa's story.
 
LF is a lock though to ride North and save the day and liberate WF with the Vale lords.  However, this may happen in the books, only it will be Harry and Sansa instead of LF who are doing it.


No torture porn on screen, and to that I'm grateful. But it's there, 'he hurts me every night'.
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No torture porn on screen, and to that I'm grateful. But it's there, 'he hurts me every night'.

That whole storyline is the most sour for me out of all 5 seasons and it still sickens me. You are right, greatful not on screen but the sounds will always be there.

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I wanted to see the magic. What's that on the Stark sigil, a direwolf, what is that all about, show. Tell the viewers, because who just tuning in this season would have a clue about that.

I wanted Jon to whisper "Ghost" before he "died" just like I wanted Robb to whisper "Grey Wind," because that's what wargs do. And I wanted Jon to remember Arya, because she's the one he is closest to, all the way back to season 1, and say "Stick them with the pointy end." I will miss you, little sister. What happened to that? Instead Olly, the walking talking cliche who came out of nowhere meant more to Jon than Arya.

And Arya missed him, too, in the books. He used to muss her hair and call her little sister, she missed him most of all, but on the show, Needle was revenge, not Jon Snow's smile. I wanted the Hound to say, "This thing about your mother" because he was trying to help, and for her to already know, because Nymeria knew. And she knew it was snowing in the Riverlands, too. And she was Cat, not Lanna, and she warged the cat, because Catelyn has a name.

When Sansa thought about dying in the books, she remembered Lady, and there was the Hound, he was always right there, or in her thoughts and dreams when she thought of Lady, because "Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it" - that line was on the show, where is the follow up? Instead, after bending over backwards to force her to be raped while playing a minor character, she wasn't even Sansa long enough to visit Lady's grave.

And Bran, why did they have to rush through his book story, too? Why did Littlefinger tell Lyanna's story instead of Meera? Why did they make it about him, imagine how he felt, and about kidnapping and rape, instead of the Knight of the Laughing Tree? And why paint Rhaegar this way, after all this time? Isn't it time to consider maybe there is more to the story? Wouldn't that be interesting, for Sansa, to consider that just might be a love story?

This is not a minor thing, Starks and direwolves, it's about their identity, what could be more important. It's like they hate the Starks...
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Now we've got Frankengregor and it's like they'll want to nominate Qyburn for the Planetosi Nobel for Medicine. He's not creepy, he hasn't experimented on ONE of Cersei's victims!

 

Even when the show DOES magic it does poorly (I'm looking at you, House of the Undying), and there's no consistency. Is Mel a fraud or a zealot serving an actual force (remember, she was batting 1.000 on killing kings by leech at this point -- or she saw it in the fires and just ginned up some leeches to make it look good.). There was something mystical about the Faceless Men in the books, now they're just a fancy hit squad with some rad Braavosi facial-un-recognition technology. I just don't know what to make of ot. 

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I wanted to see the magic. What's that on the Stark sigil, a direwolf, what is that all about, show. Tell the viewers, because who just tuning in this season would have a clue about that.

I wanted Jon to whisper "Ghost" before he "died" just like I wanted Robb to whisper "Grey Wind," because that's what wargs do. And I wanted Jon to remember Arya, because she's the one he is closest to, all the way back to season 1, and say "Stick them with the pointy end." I will miss you, little sister. What happened to that? Instead Olly, the walking talking cliche who came out of nowhere meant more to Jon than Arya.

And Arya missed him, too, in the books. He used to muss her hair and call her little sister, she missed him most of all, but on the show, Needle was revenge, not Jon Snow's smile. I wanted the Hound to say, "This thing about your mother" because he was trying to help, and for her to already know, because Nymeria knew. And she knew it was snowing in the Riverlands, too. And she was Cat, not Lanna, and she warged the cat, because Catelyn has a name.

When Sansa thought about dying in the books, she remembered Lady, and there was the Hound, he was always right there, or in her thoughts and dreams when she thought of Lady, because "Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it" - that line was on the show, where is the follow up? Instead, after bending over backwards to force her to be raped while playing a minor character, she wasn't even Sansa long enough to visit Lady's grave.

And Bran, why did they have to rush through his book story, too? Why did Littlefinger tell Lyanna's story instead of Meera? Why did they make it about him, imagine how he felt, and about kidnapping and rape, instead of the Knight of the Laughing Tree? And why paint Rhaegar this way, after all this time? Isn't it time to consider maybe there is more to the story? Wouldn't that be interesting, for Sansa, to consider that just might be a love story?

This is not a minor thing, Starks and direwolves, it's about their identity, what could be more important. It's like they hate the Starks...

 

Very well said. But I'm afraid they don't hate the Starks, they hate happiness. They hate hope. Because that's not dramatic enough for them. They fear it's boring and makes the show flop. From day 1 the selling point of GoT has been "Anyone can die!" and keeping that expactation up has been their prime directive ever since. This is why the series feels so soulless ever since season 2 to me. This is why they go out of their way to make every character as miserable as possible except the well liked villains. They hit the twists from the books no matter what happens, but they don't care for the way there and warp every single character and every single event to fit what they think their audience needs to switch in the next time. Therefore they dumb down everything, therefore they need atrocious tittilation, therefore they need to swap thematic arcs with old-fashioned tropes, therefore they cannot allow grey characters to remain grey... But to top it all off, they have always felt the need to replace George's most cinematic and meme-worthy lines (together with all other lines) with their own terrible makings. I can see why they do all the rest, but this is just plain stupidity and D&D being the self-centred jerks they come across in every single interview I've seen so far.

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Just read something where again they say Dany is Mom to her dragon babies. Surely that's not all they got out of the dragon symbolism, but it's all they seem to talk about. Sleepy cranky baby Drogon, instead of taking command of the grasslands, the grass bowing before him, eating horses, stays behind while mom is a damsel in distress. It's like they forget season 1 ever happened. And he is named after DROGO, who was not a cranky sleepy baby but a fierce warrior who turned her on, just like Daario. Was there love, yes, but there was something they awakened in her, her own ferocity. And how could they miss the sexuality of embracing the dragon, empowering her AS A WOMAN. Girls are not stupid, nor are they damsels in distress.
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Now we've got Frankengregor and it's like they'll want to nominate Qyburn for the Planetosi Nobel for Medicine. He's not creepy, he hasn't experimented on ONE of Cersei's victims!
 
Even when the show DOES magic it does poorly (I'm looking at you, House of the Undying), and there's no consistency. Is Mel a fraud or a zealot serving an actual force (remember, she was batting 1.000 on killing kings by leech at this point -- or she saw it in the fires and just ginned up some leeches to make it look good.). There was something mystical about the Faceless Men in the books, now they're just a fancy hit squad with some rad Braavosi facial-un-recognition technology. I just don't know what to make of ot.

Did someone say magic? :) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hkMEB0_dxWk
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