Shadrich The Mad Mouse Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Contains spoilers from the upcoming Winds of Winter In Theon's excerpt chapter from TWoW Stanis says the following about Bittersteel: "Do not prate at me of history, ser. Daemon Blackfyre was a rebel and usurper, Bittersteel a bastard. When he fled, he swore he would return to place a son of Daemon's upon the Iron Throne. He never did. Words are wind, and the wind that blows exiles across the narrow sea seldom blows them back. Unbeknown to him Bittersteel has actually returned to Westeros, that is to say his gilded skull has returned, and through The Golden Company he is trying to place someone on the Iron Throne! Young Griff has Targaryen blood for sure, we can trust Tyrion's judgement on this. The real question is whether he has Martell blood and who better to judge that then the heir to Dorne, Arianne Martell and in her excerpt chapter from TWoW we find her journeying to the Stormlands to find out the truth of young Griff. I think that for Stannis to remind us of Bittersteel's failure when in all probability Storm's End (Stannis last hold outside of the North) has already fallen to the Golden Company is not some passing remark and it was made deliberately by the author (according to this timeline, Griff & Co landed about 7 weeks before this remark was made). Personally I am with those who say that Young Griff is a Blackfyre pretender and not Rhaegar's son....poor Jon Connington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A bowl of brown Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah I think this quote is more foreshadowing of Aegon being a Blackfyre descendant. What JonCon will do when/if he finds out could be interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrich The Mad Mouse Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah I think this quote is more foreshadowing of Aegon being a Blackfyre descendant. What JonCon will do when/if he finds out could be interesting take his gloves off and give a big hug? Some people believe Griff's condition is going to unleash an epidemic in Westeros....the plot, as they say, thickens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rioghbhardan Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 It's funny though, because Stannis is portrayed as this stickler for the rules/laws of the land and when ever he talks about being king or killing his brother renely he treats it as if doing all this not because he wants to be king but because the laws dictate that he is the rightful king and thus he has a duty to become the king. In otherwords he acts as if he takes the whole Blood rights to throne very seriously and that's the only reason he's doing all this. But technically the Baratheon blood rights (through their Targ blood) would come second to a claim by son of Rhaegar, so I wonder if he'd still try to take the moral high ground, about his claim being the only lawful one, if he found out Rhaegars so called son was back in the picture. Or would he admit that he's just another guy with an army trying to force himself onto the iron throne just because he wants to be king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah.jenice Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah I think this quote is more foreshadowing of Aegon being a Blackfyre descendant. What JonCon will do when/if he finds out could be interesting He could always give him grayscale since he is secretly a walking plague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspoi Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Brian Rioghbhardan@ Not as long as Robert is aknowledged as the lawful king (which Stannis obviously does). Then the claim stems from Robert, to which Stannis is the closest heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Brian, if the Baratheon claim came threw the Targs then Robert would not have been King, they would have put Viserys on the throne. They started a new dynasty that Stannis is the only heir to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rioghbhardan Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah I guess that reason enough. Blood claims are messy situations anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I think Stannis would assume it was a lie anyway, I mean he was not there to see the baby, but everyone is going to assume lie until they see Aegon and think wow that's def a Targ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I think Stannis would assume it was a lie anyway, I mean he was not there to see the baby, but everyone is going to assume lie until they see Aegon and think wow that's def a Targ. You do know Blackfyres looked exactly like targaryens right? Aegon looking like a targaryen wouldn't disprove him being a blackfyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Brian, if the Baratheon claim came threw the Targs then Robert would not have been King, they would have put Viserys on the throne. They started a new dynasty that Stannis is the only heir to. Not exactly. Viserys was showing tendencies toward madness even in childhood. With Aegon's children dead, and Dany not born, Robert was next after they skipped Viserys, which they did. It took some kind of legal act to bar both Viserys and any of his potential children from the throne. The Baratheons were the next closest relatives, followed by the Martells (per existing knowledge). But as far as we know, Dany was never barred from succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Not exactly. Viserys was showing tendencies toward madness even in childhood. With Aegon's children dead, and Dany not born, Robert was next after they skipped Viserys, which they did. It took some kind of legal act to bar both Viserys and any of his potential children from the throne. The Baratheons were the next closest relatives, followed by the Martells (per existing knowledge). But as far as we know, Dany was never barred from succession. No the baratheon dynasty doesn't derive its legitimacy from targaryens, they conquered the iron throne and set up their own royal house. The Targaryen heritage of robert was just used by some to shut up the nay sayer, that even if people were targaryen loyalists they should accept robert because of his targayen heritage. But make no mistake Robert was king not because of his targaryen heritage but because he found the royal house of baratheon. Its similar to how William of normandy took over England. He established his own dynasty over the previous english crown and ever since that point the following english kings derived their right to the throne from william NOT from the previous anglo saxon dynasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Stag, I'm not suggesting that it does, I'm simply saying that the common folk of westeros are dumbass's and are going to love Aegon and because they love him they will assume he is real and forget any inconsistencies. Just like Jon Con did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Stag, I'm not suggesting that it does, I'm simply saying that the common folk of westeros are dumbass's and are going to love Aegon and because they love him they will assume he is real and forget any inconsistencies. Just like Jon Con did. But the common folk aren't the ones who make decisions! and the lords know enough history to doubt his claim. That said I am nearly certain Aegon will have some support in westeros, but that more to do with political players trying to make political gains by supporting Aegon rather than buying his story. The faith militant for instance is very likely to support him and help him dispose of the lannisters, but they will ally with Aegon with the condition that they gain more political control and influence in his regime. ps. Jon Con himself has doubts about his true parentage but he chooses to believe he is Rhaegar's son so it can be a redemption to win the throne for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rioghbhardan Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah agree with you in principle that Robert right came from him weidling an army and chose to take the throne. But after the children of the king aerys Robert did have the next blood claim on the throne and I know it's easy for us to dismiss that because we don't live in that kind of world but that blood claim actually meant something to most people. When you think about it Roberts rebellion was more starks war than it was ever Roberts. The baratheons didn't lose anyone to king aerys, it was Ned's brother who started demanding rhaegara blood and his brother and father who died as a result. Sure Robert lost his betrothed, but it wouldn't be the first time a dragon prince dmade a mistress out of someone else's betrothed. Also he did ask for robert and Ned's head but this is still more of the starks fight then Roberts. Still they made Robert the one that they all rallied behind Robert not Ned, even though Jamie seemed to think the throne would have been better off with ned. They did this because Robert has the next blood right and that meant something to them. It definetly meant something to Ned, he died because he took blood right so seriously that he wouldn't let a kid who had become king just because he wasn't Roberts blood. Sure Robert raised the kid as his own, more than his actual father Jamie who admitted he never played the role of their father. But nope Ned refused because he didn't have the blood right, stannis did. Did he like stannis, or think he would make a better king? It's not really clear, but he couldn't have thought much of him because 3hen everyone started telling him how stannis would be a shitty king he never said he wouldn't only that he was the rightful king. He wouldn't even compromise on having renely be king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspoi Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 We are perfectly aware what blood claims mean but after Robert died the succession order did not suddenly revert back to Aerys but would be counted after who was next in line to Robert. Again, as long as Robert's reign is considered legitemate then Stannis is next in line, even if some supposedly dead Targaryens show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Naufragus Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Beneath the Gold, Bitter Steel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I think Tyrion does not think young Griff is Aegon .He said what he needed to get what he needed at the time .. NOW . Stannis on the identity of young Griff .Meliasandre already set the stage another false king to take the place of the others that have fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westerosi Coast Gangster Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Joncon would fall on his sword of he finds out YG is a BF. He still loves the lad and wouldnt place any blame on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodrobin Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 You do know Blackfyres looked exactly like targaryens right? Aegon looking like a targaryen wouldn't disprove him being a blackfyre Technically, Blackfyres are Targaryens. And Targaryens don't all have the Valyrian look with pale hair and purple eye. Some, like Baelor Breakspear, had the looks of their non-Targaryen ancestors. You are correct. Aegon looking like a Targaryen itself proves nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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