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Is Ned spitting on Adoption?


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So I know if R+L= J then it might be kind of hard to argue that Ned shits on the idea of adoption. But when re-reading GoT I couldn't help but feel that his attitude towards Joffrey sitting on the throne was really insulting to families of adopted kids. We know from later books that Jamie kept his distance from his kids and never took on a father like role. In Roberts eyes all these kids were his own and in their eyes Robert was their father. So even if Robert wasn't the best father, he raised these kids just as he would have if they had actually been his. So depending on where you stand on nature vs nurture, Joffrey would have sucked just as much if he had been Roberts son. It's even stated that Joffrey hired that guy to kill Bran because he heard his father saying that someone should just put the kid out of his misery and he wanted to impress his father. But here comes Ned charging in and shouting, nope none of this matter you can't sit on the throne he's not your real dad. Like if Ned visited the home of some nice family that adopted a few kids from Africa, when they called their adoptive parents daddy/mommy would he shout at them to stop it and tell them that they aren't really their mommy and daddy? 

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So I know if R+L= J then it might be kind of hard to argue that Ned shits on the idea of adoption. But when re-reading GoT I couldn't help but feel that his attitude towards Joffrey sitting on the throne was really insulting to families of adopted kids. We know from later books that Jamie kept his distance from his kids and never took on a father like role. In Roberts eyes all these kids were his own and in their eyes Robert was their father. So even if Robert wasn't the best father, he raised these kids just as he would have if they had actually been his. So depending on where you stand on nature vs nurture, Joffrey would have sucked just as much if he had been Roberts son. It's even stated that Joffrey hired that guy to kill Bran because he heard his father saying that someone should just put the kid out of his misery and he wanted to impress his father. But here comes Ned charging in and shouting, nope none of this matter you can't sit on the throne he's not your real dad. Like if Ned visited the home of some nice family that adopted a few kids from Africa, when they called their adoptive parents daddy/mommy would he shout at them to stop it and tell them that they aren't really their mommy and daddy? 

In a world where bloodright is the defining qualification of kings, I don't think Ned's refusal of Joffrey's claim is any sort of stance against adoption.......  It's not like he's pretending Robert was a great father and only bad genetics ruined everything either...

 

This seems more like just trying to bring up a cause someone might get offended about when there is nothing there.

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So I know if R+L= J then it might be kind of hard to argue that Ned shits on the idea of adoption. But when re-reading GoT I couldn't help but feel that his attitude towards Joffrey sitting on the throne was really insulting to families of adopted kids. We know from later books that Jamie kept his distance from his kids and never took on a father like role. In Roberts eyes all these kids were his own and in their eyes Robert was their father. So even if Robert wasn't the best father, he raised these kids just as he would have if they had actually been his. So depending on where you stand on nature vs nurture, Joffrey would have sucked just as much if he had been Roberts son. It's even stated that Joffrey hired that guy to kill Bran because he heard his father saying that someone should just put the kid out of his misery and he wanted to impress his father. But here comes Ned charging in and shouting, nope none of this matter you can't sit on the throne he's not your real dad. Like if Ned visited the home of some nice family that adopted a few kids from Africa, when they called their adoptive parents daddy/mommy would he shout at them to stop it and tell them that they aren't really their mommy and daddy? 

 

Except that Robert did not officially adopt Joffrey, but was lied to into believing it was his actual son. This is not a case of Caesar adopting Octavian.

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We also have an example of "adopted" wards being considered as heirs in both the Hornwood and Rosby issues, if I'm remembering my details right.  It's kind of like anal.  If your partner is okay with it, whatever.  If someone gets mad at you for trying it without their consent, it's not suddenly breaking your rights by them not being open minded.  

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Oh yeah sorry this isn't a serious question it's mostly a joke. I totally get that the times were different. I'm just pointing out that Ned's being kind of a douche to these kids who just lost their father. You find out your dad who you loved is dead and some northerner comes bursting in with guards shouting that you're a bastard of incest and that your dad's not really your dad. Kind of insensitive, especially when Robert told him to write down joffrey's name on the will instead of his rightful heir. So he totally disregarded his best friends dying wish. Sure if had told Robert the truth there's a good chance he'd be like "fuck that joffrey kid have them all killed", but who knows maybe Robert in his dying moments would be like "I don't care who's seed it was Ned, I raised him, he's my son!." I think a lot of people shit on Ned for being bad at playing the "game" but give him props for being a really upstanding person. But disregarding his BF and kings final wish and assuming he knew better and then traumitizing his kids by accusing them of being incest bastard. Not cool, Ned, Not cool.

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:bang:

 

There is interpreting a text and then there is deliberately misunderstanding it...

 

Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen are not adopted, they are the product of Cersei's adultery with her brother (something that counts as high treason under Westerosi law) Robert had no clue that they weren't his.

 

Sorry you will have to find something else about Ned to criticize.

 

 

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We also have an example of "adopted" wards being considered as heirs in both the Hornwood and Rosby issues, if I'm remembering my details right.  It's kind of like anal.  If your partner is okay with it, whatever.  If someone gets mad at you for trying it without their consent, it's not suddenly breaking your rights by them not being open minded.  

 

So, if I understand you correctly, Joffrey would be analogous to santorum? That seems to fit pretty well.

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MY BAD, you guys are totally right, raising a kid that's not blood related to you as if its your own is in no way similar to adoption at all. Totally different in every possible way. Can't believe i even thought one could connect the two situations as being similar. So does this mean if you all get married and have kids and then 17 years later you find out the kids that you raised and loved for 17 years aren't really your kids then you're just going to disown them and tell them no more fucking hugs, they can get hugs from their real father the guy who cleaned the pool 10 years ago and hasn't been heard of since? Because I actually know a girl who had this happened to her and none of it came out until the mother ended up divorcing the guy who she believed was her father (He beleived they were his kids too) and guess what he still wanted custody because too him they were his kids and will always be his kids. But Yeah I guess he's just being a retard, Ned should go pay him a visit and explain to him how these things work. Sure he'd tell him that it would be wrong to have his fake daughter murdered, but that he should totally send her into exile, You know because Ned's such a sweet and considerate guy.

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MY BAD, you guys are totally right, raising a kid that's not blood related to you as if its your own is in no way similar to adoption at all. Totally different in every possible way. Can't believe i even thought one could connect the two situations as being similar. So does this mean if you all get married and have kids and then 17 years later you find out the kids that you raised and loved for 17 years aren't really your kids then you're just going to disown them and tell them no more fucking hugs, they can get hugs from their real father the guy who cleaned the pool 10 years ago and hasn't been heard of since? Because I actually know a girl who had this happened to her and none of it came out until the mother ended up divorcing the guy who she believed was her father (He beleived they were his kids too) and guess what he still wanted custody because too him they were his kids and will always be his kids. But Yeah I guess he's just being a retard, Ned should go pay him a visit and explain to him how these things work. Sure he'd tell him that it would be wrong to have his fake daughter murdered, but that he should totally send her into exile, You know because Ned's such a sweet and considerate guy.

 

Correct. Adoption involves a conscious choice by the parent; raising someone else's kid whom you think is yours does not. See the difference?

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MY BAD, you guys are totally right, raising a kid that's not blood related to you as if its your own is in no way similar to adoption at all. Totally different in every possible way. Can't believe i even thought one could connect the two situations as being similar.

 

Be as sarcastic as you want, you're still completely wrong. Robert did not know he was raising another man's child. He thought he was raising his own child.

 

And I'd advise you not to use the word 'retard,' especially since many mentally handicapped people would actually understand the difference between adoption and cuckolding.
 

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MY BAD, you guys are totally right, raising a kid that's not blood related to you as if its your own is in no way similar to adoption at all. Totally different in every possible way. Can't believe i even thought one could connect the two situations as being similar. So does this mean if you all get married and have kids and then 17 years later you find out the kids that you raised and loved for 17 years aren't really your kids then you're just going to disown them and tell them no more fucking hugs, they can get hugs from their real father the guy who cleaned the pool 10 years ago and hasn't been heard of since? Because I actually know a girl who had this happened to her and none of it came out until the mother ended up divorcing the guy who she believed was her father (He beleived they were his kids too) and guess what he still wanted custody because too him they were his kids and will always be his kids. But Yeah I guess he's just being a retard, Ned should go pay him a visit and explain to him how these things work. Sure he'd tell him that it would be wrong to have his fake daughter murdered, but that he should totally send her into exile, You know because Ned's such a sweet and considerate guy.


I don't really consider what Robert did to be raising the children. Without the knowledge that they weren't his, he still practically abandoned them.

Also I don't think adoption is the right term if you are unaware of it. I'm sure anyone who has adopted knows that the children aren't theirs and actively wanted childern.
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Ok so then to clarify all of you that are arguing against me are saying that if you currently have kids or were to ever have kids in the future and you raised them for decade or two. If you found out that they were not really your kids and you'd been a cuckhold that you'd tell them to go find their real dad because you're not him and then throw them out on the streets. That's what you're saying you'd do right? BTW This is a yes or no question, and if your answer is yes then I've got a follow up question for you "How is it that you don't see that you're a horrible person?". I'm guessing your answer to that will be "willful ignorance."

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Oh yeah sorry this isn't a serious question it's mostly a joke. I totally get that the times were different. I'm just pointing out that Ned's being kind of a douche to these kids who just lost their father. You find out your dad who you loved is dead and some northerner comes bursting in with guards shouting that you're a bastard of incest and that your dad's not really your dad. Kind of insensitive, especially when Robert told him to write down joffrey's name on the will instead of his rightful heir. So he totally disregarded his best friends dying wish. Sure if had told Robert the truth there's a good chance he'd be like "fuck that joffrey kid have them all killed", but who knows maybe Robert in his dying moments would be like "I don't care who's seed it was Ned, I raised him, he's my son!." I think a lot of people shit on Ned for being bad at playing the "game" but give him props for being a really upstanding person. But disregarding his BF and kings final wish and assuming he knew better and then traumitizing his kids by accusing them of being incest bastard. Not cool, Ned, Not cool.

 

a douche? He could have had told Robert on his death bed and had them killed.

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Hey, Ned also practically adopted Theon.

 

However, he most likely also adopted another kid but forgot to tell him that he was adopted which can be harmful in a modern setting. Oh, dear...:P

 

Seriously though, Ned was not shitting over adoption by rejecting Joffrey as Robert's son. He was acknowledging that there was a pretender on the Throne. House Baratheon are the ruling House, not House Lannister. The guilty party was the King's own Queen and one of his King's Guard, making matters worse.

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Ok so then to clarify all of you that are arguing against me are saying that if you currently have kids or were to ever have kids in the future and you raised them for decade or two. If you found out that they were not really your kids and you'd been a cuckhold that you'd tell them to go find their real dad because you're not him and then throw them out on the streets. That's what you're saying you'd do right? BTW This is a yes or no question, and if your answer is yes then I've got a follow up question for you "How is it that you don't see that you're a horrible person?". I'm guessing your answer to that will be "willful ignorance."

 

Westeros is not first world earth. There are places on earth (outside the first world) where if a woman cuckholds her husband and her husband finds out, he would have the right to kill her and her children. If you want to take apart ASoFaI according to modern first world values there is plenty company for you on Tumblr.

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Do you think maybe in a weird way Roose Bolton was kinder to his bastard son then Ned was to jon? I know that he only brought him into his house and asked the king to legitimize Ramsey because he needed an heir. But Robert was Ned's best friend, Robert didn't take his powers all that seriously and he totally owed ned for helping put him on the throne. If Ned wanted he could have asked Robert to Legitimize Jon Snow so that he didn't have to grow up with the shame of being a bastard and lesser than the other Stark children. Sure I know if Jon's father is Rhaegar that would technically make him Jon Targ not Jon Stark. But obviously you wouldn't bring that up and he'd just grow up as Jon stark. Just like if Rhaegar is his father then his bastard name should be Jon Waters not Jon Snow, but Ned doesn't have a problem with calling him Jon Snow. 

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Do you think maybe in a weird way Roose Bolton was kinder to his bastard son then Ned was to jon? I know that he only brought him into his house and asked the king to legitimize Ramsey because he needed an heir. But Robert was Ned's best friend, Robert didn't take his powers all that seriously and he totally owed ned for helping put him on the throne. If Ned wanted he could have asked Robert to Legitimize Jon Snow so that he didn't have to grow up with the shame of being a bastard and lesser than the other Stark children. Sure I know if Jon's father is Rhaegar that would technically make him Jon Targ not Jon Stark. But obviously you wouldn't bring that up and he'd just grow up as Jon stark. Just like if Rhaegar is his father then his bastard name should be Jon Waters not Jon Snow, but Ned doesn't have a problem with calling him Jon Snow. 

 

Jon was lucky Ned raised him at home. Roose only legitimized Ramsay AFTER Domeric, his heir was killed. Ned has 5 children of his own, his true children, not his nephew of Lyanna. It already raised hell with Cat that he brought Jon home. There's no way he could have legitmized Jon towards his own children and to Cat. Legitimizing him under those circumstances might actually lead to a war between Jon's children and Robb's children over WF in some unforseeable future. Ned can't do that, no matter how much he loved his nephew or not.

 

What the heck do you fail to understand about the importance of bloodlines. Westeros isn't the modern western society where we don't care whether you were born within or outside a marriage. We don't get to inherit a lordship over other people and castles and ancestral swords. 

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