U.S. Politics: mid summer edition

[TerraPrime]

Do continue.

[awesome possum]

Obama is in full on "trolling far right wingnuts" mode, even while attempting to make a point to African leaders

 

 

 

"I actually think I'm a pretty good President. I think if I ran, I could win. But I can't," Obama ad-libbed during a speech in Ethiopia. "There's a lot that I'd like to do to keep America moving. But the law is the law, and no person is above the law, not even the president."

 

Obama's remarks, which come on the same day that a new CNN/ORC poll found his approval rating standing in net-positive territory for the second month in a row, were made to the African Union in Addis Ababa. He is the first U.S. president to address the group, and was critiquing some African leaders' reluctance to turn over power.

 

Also, a Kansas mathematician says she's found some irregular voting patterns in some Kansas election results, requested a full audit.  Kansas Republicans in the county in question - who control the state and have helped send it to the basement of the country - say, "sure you can do that, after you get the courts to make us" 

 

But Beth Clarkson said government officials have been reluctant to provide her with the records she needs to conduct an audit.

 

The Lawrence Journal-World reported that Sedgwick County election officials refused to allow computer records to be part of any recount, instead telling Clarkson if she wanted them she would have to fight for them in court.

 

 

Because surely people who are innocent of rigging elections have nothing to hide... except the stuff that they want to hide. 

[Frog Eater]

Also, a Kansas mathematician says she's found some irregular voting patterns in some Kansas election results, requested a full audit.  Kansas Republicans in the county in question - who control the state and have helped send it to the basement of the country - say, "sure you can do that, after you get the courts to make us" 

 

 

Because surely people who are innocent of rigging elections have nothing to hide... except the stuff that they want to hide. 

 

Why would she have a right to audit the voting machines?

 

Does Grover Norquist have a right to request the computer back-up for voting machines to audit "inconsistencies" he finds in Democratic leaning areas of the country?

 

Where does that stop?

[awesome possum]

Why would she have a right to audit the voting machines?

 

Does Grover Norquist have a right to request the computer back-up for voting machines to audit "inconsistencies" he finds in Democratic leaning areas of the country?

 

Where does that stop?

 

Nice attempt to reframe the story in a classic Fox way.  Nowhere did I say or does the article say anything about rights.  She saw some odd patterns, requested an audit, was told to fuck off.  I love how your first reaction is basically, "where does this uppity woman get off on thinking she has the right to voting records?"

 

Anyway, where does it stop?  How about it stops with having electronic voting machines - machines that have been proven time and time and time again to be easily corruptable - used at all for elections?

[Frog Eater]

My argument has nothing to do with an "uppity woman"

 

It has everything to do with a person (non-denominational, non-gendered, no-race) being able to order an audit of "inconsistencies" in the voting. 

 

Every election has a winner and a loser. If I lose my election for city councilperson (non-denominational, non-gendered, no-race) can I order an audit? Even if I lost by a landslide?

[BloodRider]

If you can show an inconsistency with some scientific vigor, why the fuck not?

[awesome possum]

And you still miss the fact that it was a request, not an order.  If you lost an election by a landslide and then noticed some voting irregularities then yes, you absolutely have the right to request an audit.  

[Frog Eater]

So the Republicans should have "requested" an audit of all of the voting machines in Ohio and Florida after the last Presidential election? The Romney campaign had internal polling showing him winning these states. And then he didn't. What could be more "inconsistent" than that?

 

Or: when the state election commissions tell him to (in your words) "Fuck Off", you would have been ok with that, right?

[DanteGabriel]

So the Republicans should have "requested" an audit of all of the voting machines in Ohio and Florida after the last Presidential election? The Romney campaign had internal polling showing him winning these states. And then he didn't. What could be more "inconsistent" than that?

 

Or: when the state election commissions tell him to (in your words) "Fuck Off", you would have been ok with that, right?

 

If Romney had issues with the way elections were administered in Ohio and Florida in 2012, he could have taken it up with the administrations of those states. They probably wouldn't have told him to fuck off, since they were, and are, Republican administrations.

[awesome possum]

So the Republicans should have "requested" an audit of all of the voting machines in Ohio and Florida after the last Presidential election? The Romney campaign had internal polling showing him winning these states. And then he didn't. What could be more "inconsistent" than that?

 

Or: when the state election commissions tell him to (in your words) "Fuck Off", you would have been ok with that, right?

 

So Romney's heavily biased masturbatory internal polling - which it is now historical fact that GOP internal polling didn't come anywhere close to unbiased polls from that same period - is somehow equal to a mathematician noticing odd patterns in voting results?  

 

I mean, that's your idea of inconsistency? "The people I pay to tell me how awesome I am and who told me I was more awesome than the other guy were wrong."  That's an inconsistency on the same level as someone who crunches numbers for a living noticing that some numbers don't add up?  

 

I'm just trying to get a handle on how serious I should be taking you right now.  

[Frog Eater]

She found that some large voting precincts were more likely to vote Republican than some small ones. And now she wants the voting records.

 

If the commissioner of elections ordered an audit, that would be one thing, but this is a citizen bringing a lawsuit so she can obtain voting records. 

 

I don't like voting machines that cant be audited either. But saying that the election commissions should be required to turn over voting records to every citizen who thinks they have found an "inconsistency" is unfeasible. 

[Biglose]

And you still miss the fact that it was a request, not an order.  If you lost an election by a landslide and then noticed some voting irregularities then yes, you absolutely have the right to request an audit.  

Well, it depends on how you define irregularities. The point is, thats "from the numbers alone" nearly impossible to prove. Simply because 1,1,1,1,1, is not less probable than 1,2,1,1,2. And voting is not even a totally random event, naturally. So some patterns could show how people group.

 

 

 

So Romney's heavily biased masturbatory internal polling - which it is now historical fact that GOP internal polling didn't come anywhere close to unbiased polls from that same period - is somehow equal to a mathematician noticing odd patterns in voting results?  

How should anybody here know? It might have more or less merit, depends on the mathematicians argument. It is a double edge sword. If "I find this odd" from one mathematician is enough to allow this person a full review, well you will have that a lot. If stuff like that would not have the potential to end in a media circus claming the vote ain't worth anything anymore, until the so to speak "mainstream" experts get along just to boringly explain to everybody why the conclusions drawn are possible but unlikely and how with additional research one could have easily shown that they are plain out wrong... Yeah, there would not be a problem. But thats not the world we are living in.

[awesome possum]

She found that some large voting precincts were more likely to vote Republican than some small ones. And now she wants the voting records.

 

If the commissioner of elections ordered an audit, that would be one thing, but this is a citizen bringing a lawsuit so she can obtain voting records. 

 

I don't like voting machines that cant be audited either. But saying that the election commissions should be required to turn over voting records to every citizen who thinks they have found an "inconsistency" is unfeasible. 

 

So judging by your posting patterns so far it's safe to say:

 

You didn't read the article, which was all of 5 sentences.  Nowhere in the article does it say what patterns she found - your idea that she found "some large voting precincts were more likely to vote Republican than some small ones" isn't in the article at all.  

 

It also doesn't say she's suing, but that the election officials of one county told her she needs to sue.

 

You just took the small quote I provided and immediately Fox News'd it in your head to fit your preconceived notions.  

[DanteGabriel]

By the way, there's been suspicion about the integrity of voting machines since at least the 2004 election cycle. Diebold (they have changed their name since then) was a leading manufacturer of voting machines and their CEO was a major fund-raiser for Bush who'd openly expressed his desire to "deliver Ohio's electoral votes" to Bush. Independent researchers verified that Diebold's machines could be hacked, that the machines had no paper trail. If you want to talk about suspicious results in Ohio, go to 2004, when the Republican Secretary of State (who owned Diebold stock) reversed an earlier decision to use different machines, which had paper trails, and go with the Diebold machines.

[Frog Eater]

 

So judging by your posting patterns so far it's safe to say:

 

You didn't read the article, which was all of 5 sentences.  Nowhere in the article does it say what patterns she found - your idea that she found "some large voting precincts were more likely to vote Republican than some small ones" isn't in the article at all.  

 

It also doesn't say she's suing, but that the election officials of one county told her she needs to sue.

 

You just took the small quote I provided and immediately Fox News'd it in your head to fit your preconceived notions.  

there are other articles:

 

[url=]http://whowhatwhy.org/2015/06/23/statistician-data-point-to-multiple-agents-manipulating-election/[/url]

 

The article looks at three elections ranging from 2012 to 2014 that exhibited suspicious voting patterns. Clarkson’s analysis contains some technical jargon, but in essence she found that many large voting precincts were more likely to vote Republican than smaller voting precincts, a phenomenon proven to be statistically unnatural. There should be no reason that larger precincts should consistently vote more for one party than smaller precincts.

 

And she is suing as well:

 

And Clarkson is doing her part to try to make that happen. She has brought a lawsuit against Kansas election officials intended to obtain voting records in order to perform an audit herself.

[Inigima]

Stopping electronic voting machines has been a matter of bipartisan support for years. I'm not clear on why we haven't stopped and I assume it has to do with someone getting paid. They are woefully insecure and they could easily be used to rig elections, if they haven't already. That they are still in use at all anywhere is a travesty.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

 

Nice attempt to reframe the story in a classic Fox way.  Nowhere did I say or does the article say anything about rights.  She saw some odd patterns, requested an audit, was told to fuck off.  I love how your first reaction is basically, "where does this uppity woman get off on thinking she has the right to voting records?"

 

Anyway, where does it stop?  How about it stops with having electronic voting machines - machines that have been proven time and time and time again to be easily corruptable - used at all for elections?

My old representative was pushing a law that required all electronic voting machines to produce paper records. I don't think it got anywhere

[BloodRider]

So the Republicans should have "requested" an audit of all of the voting machines in Ohio and Florida after the last Presidential election? The Romney campaign had internal polling showing him winning these states. And then he didn't. What could be more "inconsistent" than that?

 

Or: when the state election commissions tell him to (in your words) "Fuck Off", you would have been ok with that, right?

You are manufacturing a problem in order to (falsely) claim balance, and then screaming hypocrisy.  If you can show - with any sort of scientific rigor that Romney's internal polls are a reason to suspect an election, then go ahead.  

 

Alternatively, if your beef is that her claim is not legitimate, then go ahead and show that - with some sort of scientific rigor, not with rhetoric or grousing.

 

Until then get off your high horse.  It's not as high as you think.

 

EDIT: Dammit, mind, why is it that every time you read Wichita you sing "I am a lineman for the county"

[Fez]

 

If Romney had issues with the way elections were administered in Ohio and Florida in 2012, he could have taken it up with the administrations of those states. They probably wouldn't have told him to fuck off, since they were, and are, Republican administrations.

 

I think Kasich actually would've told Romney to fuck off; after all, it'd go against Jesus to be impugning the ability of his administration to oversee an election.

[lokisnow]

Privatized profits is why we use electronic voting machines. That and it's easy to falsify the results of electronic records.

It's sort of like the upcoming switch from a gas tax (government administration costs of 0.02% of tax revenue) to a miles driven use tax (subcontracted out of government to private sector with administration costs of over 56% of revrnues) meaning we have to more than double the gas tax burden to break even on revenue collected when we go to a privatized profits version of the gas tax. This latter point is why we will indutably switch off a miles driven tax.