Dr Qyburn M.D Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 It seems to me if Ned had of summoned Stannis to the capital it would have benefited both of them greatly. Ned had a strong feeling Stannis knew something regarding Jon Arryns death so he could have done it. If he had of Stannis would of informed him of the incest which I suspect Stannis knew about already and him and Ned could have joined their forces. I just find it fun to think about what could have happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Because Stannis had to be kept on Dragonstone for the story to move the way GRRM wanted, even if it didn't make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ned wasn't familiar with the full scope of what he could with his authority as Hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Considering Ned does lament at least once (from my addled memory) that Stannis had absconded to DS during his investigation, I think the fact he does not recall Stannis reflects the latter's statement to Jon that 'he was no friend of mine.' Considering Ned being the brother to Robert that 'by rights' should have been Stannis (especially considering how close they were in age), the Ned/Stannis relationship was probably always very icy. With that in mind, it makes sense that Ned would only call on Stannis if it was absolutely necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Because Stannis had to be kept on Dragonstone for the story to move the way GRRM wanted, even if it didn't make sense Ned wasn't familiar with the full scope of what he could with his authority as Hand. "Will you summon Lord Stannis back from Dragonstone?" "Not yet," Ned said. "Not until I have a better notion of what this is all about and where he stands." The matter nagged at him. Why did Stannis leave? Had he played some part in Jon Arryn's murder? Or was he afraid? Ned found it hard to imagine what could frighten Stannis Baratheon, who had once held Storm's End through a year of siege, surviving on rats and boot leather while the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne sat outside with their hosts, banqueting in sight of his walls. ... It struck him suddenly that he might return to Winterfell by sea. Ned was no sailor, and ordinarily would have preferred the kingsroad, but if he took ship he could stop at Dragonstone and speak with Stannis Baratheon. Pycelle had sent a raven off across the water, with a polite letter from Ned requesting Lord Stannis to return to his seat on the small council. As yet, there had been no reply, but the silence only deepened his suspicions. Lord Stannis shared the secret Jon Arryn had died for, he was certain of it. The truth he sought might very well be waiting for him on the ancient island fortress of House Targaryen. Ned knows that he can summon Stannis, but he does not know what role Stannis plays in all this yet, and so only sends a letter later on inviting Stannis to retake his seat in the council. But the bottom line is, Martin wanted to start the war when different players are at different places and at different levels of preparations. For this Stannis needed to remain on Dragonstone and not declare himself king until Robb had marched south, the Lannisters have taken over most of the Riverlands, Renly had arrived at Highgarden where he is married, crowned, and goes on to raise a massive army. During this time Stannis had raised lords who are all a few hours to a couple days sail away, and had sent Davos to see which of the Stormlords, if at all, would support him. The slow movement fits with how the Dornish are simply a non-factor for Stannis in Cressen's POV, where he offers alliance with the Vale and the North, but not the faction that has a spare son, has a burning hatred for the Lannisters and share a border with Renly. Martin was keeping them for the next book, it's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Do we ever get confirmation from Stannis that he got the letter from Ned? Seems entirely possible that Pycelle wouldn't have sent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Do we ever get confirmation from Stannis that he got the letter from Ned? Seems entirely possible that Pycelle wouldn't have sent it. And what would have happened had Stannis turned up anyway? Pycelle most likely sent it just like when asked what book Arryn was reading he showed Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan slayer of hot pies Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 "Will you summon Lord Stannis back from Dragonstone?" "Not yet," Ned said. "Not until I have a better notion of what this is all about and where he stands." The matter nagged at him. Why did Stannis leave? Had he played some part in Jon Arryn's murder? Or was he afraid? Ned found it hard to imagine what could frighten Stannis Baratheon, who had once held Storm's End through a year of siege, surviving on rats and boot leather while the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne sat outside with their hosts, banqueting in sight of his walls. ... It struck him suddenly that he might return to Winterfell by sea. Ned was no sailor, and ordinarily would have preferred the kingsroad, but if he took ship he could stop at Dragonstone and speak with Stannis Baratheon. Pycelle had sent a raven off across the water, with a polite letter from Ned requesting Lord Stannis to return to his seat on the small council. As yet, there had been no reply, but the silence only deepened his suspicions. Lord Stannis shared the secret Jon Arryn had died for, he was certain of it. The truth he sought might very well be waiting for him on the ancient island fortress of House Targaryen. Ned knows that he can summon Stannis, but he does not know what role Stannis plays in all this yet, and so only sends a letter later on inviting Stannis to retake his seat in the council. But the bottom line is, Martin wanted to start the war when different players are at different places and at different levels of preparations. For this Stannis needed to remain on Dragonstone and not declare himself king until Robb had marched south, the Lannisters have taken over most of the Riverlands, Renly had arrived at Highgarden where he is married, crowned, and goes on to raise a massive army. During this time Stannis had raised lords who are all a few hours to a couple days sail away, and had sent Davos to see which of the Stormlords, if at all, would support him. The slow movement fits with how the Dornish are simply a non-factor for Stannis in Cressen's POV, where he offers alliance with the Vale and the North, but not the faction that has a spare son, has a burning hatred for the Lannisters and share a border with Renly. Martin was keeping them for the next book, it's as simple as that. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 ^Ravens are lost all the time, 1 Raven not arriving is not evidence of anything least of all against the Grand Maester who could even say he gave the letter to a novice who could have sent the wrong Raven. A Storm or a hawk are both viable explanations as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ned's reasoning isn't very sound. Stannis stayed on Dragonstone because that's where he needed to be to forward the plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Do we ever get confirmation from Stannis that he got the letter from Ned? Seems entirely possible that Pycelle wouldn't have sent it. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ McLannister Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ned was not a good Hand. He spent most of his time there trying to figure out who killed Jon Arryn (never suspecting Lysa or Littlefinger), and failing to rein in Robert's excesses. Though on that fron, Jon Arryn apparently wasn't any better. When Tyrion arrives, he almost immediately slaps around the small council and begins to undo the damage that Joffrey/Cersei managed to do already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ned was not a good Hand. He spent most of his time there trying to figure out who killed Jon Arryn (never suspecting Lysa or Littlefinger), and failing to rein in Robert's excesses. Though on that fron, Jon Arryn apparently wasn't any better. When Tyrion arrives, he almost immediately slaps around the small council and begins to undo the damage that Joffrey/Cersei managed to do already.I just seem to remember him licking Doran's ass and sniping at his sister. Oh, and he saved the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ned was not a good Hand. He spent most of his time there trying to figure out who killed Jon Arryn (never suspecting Lysa or Littlefinger), and failing to rein in Robert's excesses. Though on that fron, Jon Arryn apparently wasn't any better. When Tyrion arrives, he almost immediately slaps around the small council and begins to undo the damage that Joffrey/Cersei managed to do already. Jon Arryn was a good administrator and diplomat, but he was bad at internal politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 ^Ravens are lost all the time, 1 Raven not arriving is not evidence of anything least of all against the Grand Maester who could even say he gave the letter to a novice who could have sent the wrong Raven. A Storm or a hawk are both viable explanations as well. Why would he not though? He is still the Kings brother and member of the Small Council. It is not like he was retiring from public life to spend the rest of his life on Dragonstone, he could turn up at any time? And what was Pycelle going to do when there was no response and Ned asks him to send another raven? Pretend that one got lost as well? Ned asks Pycelle for the book Arryn was reading and not only does he tell him which book but gives it to him, do you have any evidence of Pycelle deliberately disobeying an order from Ned? Sometimes a lot of you look for conspiracies where there are none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ McLannister Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Pycelle's hard to read. Assuming that Lysa actually did poison Jon, Pycelle might have honestly been as oblivious to everything as he presented himself. Did Pycelle know about the twincest? Did he realize that that book was a clue? Or did he assume Jon Arryn just wanted to brush up on his genealogy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ned's reasoning isn't very sound. Stannis stayed on Dragonstone because that's where he needed to be to forward the plot. Disregarding plot, I think Stannis' reasoning (e.g. I'm gonna post up at DS with this huge secret and not reach out to anybody even though I think the Lannisters killed the Hand) was far less sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Pycelle's hard to read. Assuming that Lysa actually did poison Jon, Pycelle might have honestly been as oblivious to everything as he presented himself. Did Pycelle know about the twincest? Did he realize that that book was a clue? Or did he assume Jon Arryn just wanted to brush up on his genealogy? Pretty sure when Tyrion scares the shit out of him he admits he knew about the twincest, and Arryn finding out about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Disregarding plot, I think Stannis' reasoning (e.g. I'm gonna post up at DS with this huge secret and not reach out to anybody even though I think the Lannisters killed the Hand) was far less sound.Indeed, he should be dining with the Stormlords at the very least. He could have easily tried to shore up support and make ties to other houses. Hell, he didn't even try to marry off Shireen (Heir to Dragonstone and all its incomes) for the support of a lord paramount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Indeed, he should be dining with the Stormlords at the very least. He could have easily tried to shore up support and make ties to other houses. Hell, he didn't even try to marry off Shireen (Heir to Dragonstone and all its incomes) for the support of a lord paramount. Shireen is only 8/9 at the start of the series and suffers from Greyscale. I'm not sure she would have been a great match at that point. It would actually be a better idea to hold off on betrothing her until he officially declared. He had no idea that both Renly and Robb would declare for themselves, leaving him with very little high profile Lords to offer his daughter to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.