JohnathanSnew Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Weird question, I know. I've seen this belief before that if Jaime does turn out to be the Valonqar, that somehow also means that he can't fall in love with Brienne. I'm not debating whether or not Jaime is or will be in love with Brienne (*cough* he already is *cough*), but I don't see how the Valonqar prophecy prevents this. Uh, anybody able to shed some light on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Weird question, I know. I've seen this belief before that if Jaime does turn out to be the Valonqar, that somehow also means that he can't fall in love with Brienne. I'm not debating whether or not Jaime is or will be in love with Brienne (*cough* he already is *cough*), but I don't see how the Valonqar prophecy prevents this. Uh, anybody able to shed some light on this? i don't think that its that he can't fall in love with brienne. its more that he's not going to get a happy ending with brienne. which i have to agree with, i can't see jaime running off into the sunset and marrying and having bbs with brienne after strangling cersei to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon89 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 i don't think that its that he can't fall in love with brienne. its more that he's not going to get a happy ending with brienne. which i have to agree with, i can't see jaime running off into the sunset and marrying and having bbs with brienne after strangling cersei to death. You pretty much nailed it. I can see a number of scenarios where Brienne is directly the reason that Jamie kills Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCBlackbird Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 i don't think that its that he can't fall in love with brienne. its more that he's not going to get a happy ending with brienne. which i have to agree with, i can't see jaime running off into the sunset and marrying and having bbs with brienne after strangling cersei to death. Why not? Because he did something wrong or is it a character arc thing? I personally hope he kills Cersei and runs off with Brienne, though I do realize that maybe that's too happy an ending, but I don't think it's impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Why not? Because he did something wrong or is it a character arc thing? I personally hope he kills Cersei and runs off with Brienne, though I do realize that maybe that's too happy an ending, but I don't think it's impossible. both i guess. i just can't see him being rewarded for killing cersei and its also way too fluffy for it to be asoiaf. You pretty much nailed it. I can see a number of scenarios where Brienne is directly the reason that Jamie kills Cersei. lol i dont. some love triangle shit would be cheesy af. brienne is just not really a factor in cersei's storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon89 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 lol i dont. some love triangle shit would be cheesy af. brienne is just not really a factor in cersei's storyline. All it takes for Cersei to want her dead or to make an attempt of some sort is her perception of the loss, or potential loss of Jamie to Brienne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 All it takes for Cersei to want her dead or to make an attempt of some sort is her perception of the loss, or potential loss of Jamie to Brienne. yeah i dont think thats going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnathanSnew Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 See, the posts I've seen around seem to be along the lines of "Jaime could never love Brienne because he is the valonqar" and I just don't see how one negates the other. If anything, falling for another woman might just create more distance between he and Cersei, therefore futhering his detachment from her if/when he does take her life. I don't necessarily see a happy ending for him after such an act, but who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 See, the posts I've seen around seem to be along the lines of "Jaime could never love Brienne because he is the valonqar" and I just don't see how one negates the other. If anything, falling for another woman might just create more distance between he and Cersei, therefore futhering his detachment from her if/when he does take her life. I don't necessarily see a happy ending for him after such an act, but who knows? I guess some people think that if Jaime doesn't fully get over Cersei then he can't really love Brienne. When you consider the fact that the valonqar is supposed to strangle Cersei to death...strangling is crime of passion, heat and a really intimate way to kill Cersei. You don't use strangling as a method to kill someone to death if you're indifferent to them and are completely over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnathanSnew Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 I guess some people think that if Jaime doesn't fully get over Cersei then he can't really love Brienne. When you consider the fact that the valonqar is supposed to strangle Cersei to death...strangling is crime of passion, heat and a really intimate way to kill Cersei. You don't use strangling as a method to kill someone to death if you're indifferent to them and are completely over them. That's a pretty big generalization there. I'm 100% sure I can find many cases where someone was strangled to death by someone who was not in love with them. Of course, in this case, it would be extremely emotional, but certainly not romantic. Also, Jaime still having feelings for Cersei hasn't prevented him from developing feelings for Brienne so far. But yes, I fear this is exactly how some people have decided to view this situation. I don't know, it doesn't seem right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Jaime and Brienne will have sex before their story is concluded like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 That's a pretty big generalization there. I'm 100% sure I can find many cases where someone was strangled to death by someone who was not in love with them. Of course, in this case, it would be extremely emotional, but certainly not romantic. Also, Jaime still having feelings for Cersei hasn't prevented him from developing feelings for Brienne so far. But yes, I fear this is exactly how some people have decided to view this situation. I don't know, it doesn't seem right to me. I never meant that it's "romantic" and real life cases have nothing to do with it. It's about the narrative and the characters. The only other major strangulation death in ASOIAF was Tyrion killing shae. I just think the lannister brothers are meant to parallel each other in regards to killing women they love. I don't care about jaime/brienne and neither do I think that jaime can't love brienne. I'm just expressing my opinions on jaime/cersei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnathanSnew Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 I never meant that it's "romantic" and real life cases have nothing to do with it. It's about the narrative and the characters. The only other major strangulation death in ASOIAF was Tyrion killing shae. I just think the lannister brothers are meant to parallel each other in regards to killing women they love. Sorry, my mistake there. And yes, I do agree that Jaime murdering Cersei would/will be a deliberate parallel to Tyrion killing Shae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Well, I think that you mean that if he kills Cersei, then he would be a bad person, so not worthy of Brienne, is it this? Because I don't see Jaime killing Cersei because he loves her. As I see it, if Jaimie ends being the valonqar it may be for many reasons: maybe he has to do it for duty, as he did with Aerys, or maybe because he hates Cersei (I don't see it, because he will never stop loving Cersei, at least, there will be twin's love, even if it is not romantic), both reasons don't prevent him from not loving Brienne. If he does it because he is in love with Cersei, then it would be a strange way of "loving someone". Nevertheless, it doesn't stop him from loving Brienne, as well. Apart from all that, we have to consider that maybe, at this point of the story, he is falling in love with Brienne (which I believe) and that doesn't stop him (nor Brienne) of killing people for different reasons..... And once love has reached someone's heart you can stop it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Here's why I think jaime x Brienne (endgame) is doomed if jaime is the Valonquar. I think that IF jaime does murder cersei with his own hands - whatever the reason - that is going to fuck him up irreparably. It will not be "redemptive" and it will probably kill him. He will be personally and intimately killing the person who has been the center of his existence his entire life - this is some soul-destroying stuff here. It's not comparable to Tyrion / Shae at leastin terms of magnitude. So anyway, if Jaime is the valonquar he is not long for this world, IMO. By this time it's entirely possible that he will already be in love with brienne, and maybe they'll even have hooked up. But that doesn't mean he can murder his former lover (basically spouse) and walk away from it and with brienne into the sunset. As a jaime and briennr fan, I am just hoping hat Jaime isn't the valonquar and that fate has something else in store for him. For example, it would be really interesting, IMO, if Jaime had the opportunity to confront Daenerys and tell her about how Aerys was going to burn down KL before he stabbed him. So Maybe he'll be too busy with that to choke cersei to death and he'll be able to continue his life... If Dany lets him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Here's why I think jaime x Brienne (endgame) is doomed if jaime is the Valonquar. I think that IF jaime does murder cersei with his own hands - whatever the reason - that is going to fuck him up irreparably. It will not be "redemptive" and it will probably kill him. He will be personally and intimately killing the person who has been the center of his existence his entire life - this is some soul-destroying stuff here. It's not comparable to Tyrion / Shae at leastin terms of magnitude. So anyway, if Jaime is the valonquar he is not long for this world, IMO. By this time it's entirely possible that he will already be in love with brienne, and maybe they'll even have hooked up. But that doesn't mean he can murder his former lover (basically spouse) and walk away from it and with brienne into the sunset. As a jaime and briennr fan, I am just hoping hat Jaime isn't the valonquar and that fate has something else in store for him. For example, it would be really interesting, IMO, if Jaime had the opportunity to confront Daenerys and tell her about how Aerys was going to burn down KL before he stabbed him. So Maybe he'll be too busy with that to choke cersei to death and he'll be able to continue his life... If Dany lets him anyway. Yes, he will be emotionally devastated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCBlackbird Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Personally I think that Jaime and Cersei have been growing apart, they've both started to realize that the other is not the way they thought they were and can't come to terms with that, and in Jaime's case that has happened hand in hand with him falling for Brienne, so I think that killing Cersei would be the ultiimate act of "ridding himself of her" (to put it harshly cause well... it is quite harsh LOL) and I think a logical follow up would be for him and Brienne to than start a life together. It would be quite ironic that a murder is "rewarded" with happiness though I do see why people think that doesn't fit. I also see why people think that would be too much of a happy ending but I wouldn't rule it out at all, and I kinda hope that's what gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Personally I think that Jaime and Cersei have been growing apart, they've both started to realize that the other is not the way they thought they were and can't come to terms with that, and in Jaime's case that has happened hand in hand with him falling for Brienne, so I think that killing Cersei would be the ultiimate act of "ridding himself of her" (to put it harshly cause well... it is quite harsh LOL) and I think a logical follow up would be for him and Brienne to than start a life together. It would be quite ironic that a murder is "rewarded" with happiness though I do see why people think that doesn't fit. I also see why people think that would be too much of a happy ending but I wouldn't rule it out at all, and I kinda hope that's what gonna happen. It's too easy. Yes, jaime will probably come to despise Cersei but killing her would not be anything he could walk away from. Seeing or hearing that she dies? Sure. He'd be sad or angry but hed move on because he'd see by this point that she made her own bed. But strangling her to death HIMSELF? No way. That is totally Going to fuck him up forever. If he does that I think the idea of them leaving this world together is far more likely than any happy ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 It's too easy. Yes, jaime will probably come to despise Cersei but killing her would not be anything he could walk away from. Seeing or hearing that she dies? Sure. He'd be sad or angry but hed move on because he'd see by this point that she made her own bed. But strangling her to death HIMSELF? No way. That is totally Going to fuck him up forever. If he does that I think the idea of them leaving this world together is far more likely than any happy ending. Well, I've changed my mind. Why forever? After all that has happened, if he kills Cersei it will be because is his duty, and he has to cope with that. And also, he should be willing to tell Bran what he did to him and ask his pardon. Then, Brienne will decide what to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCBlackbird Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 It's too easy. Yes, jaime will probably come to despise Cersei but killing her would not be anything he could walk away from. Seeing or hearing that she dies? Sure. He'd be sad or angry but hed move on because he'd see by this point that she made her own bed. But strangling her to death HIMSELF? No way. That is totally Going to fuck him up forever. If he does that I think the idea of them leaving this world together is far more likely than any happy ending. It would destroy him yes, and I don't think that if he runs away with Brienne he'll be able to just forget about it or anything but people can get over pretty traumatising stuff. I don't think he nessacarily needs to die, I actually think that dying with Cersei would kind of defeat the purpose of him learning to live without her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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