Winterfell Resident Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 What has been bothering me is when Arya met Jaquen H'gar was it just mere coincidence or something planned. The reason I ask this is how does someone like Jaquen H'gar who can easily disguise himself be captured and sent away to the wall. And when the fire broke out and Jaquen H'gar asked Arya to help him get out of the cage and she helped him, he promises her 3 wishes and gives her an invitation to learn the ways of the faceless men. Something just does not feel right. The kindly man is a very sharp person. Jacquen H'gar had to have known who arya was because paying attention to people is what the Kindly man had told arya is what she needed to master. And finally, when Arya warged into the cat and was able to hit the kindly man and he asked her how was she able to do that, I felt that the Kindly man knew the answer but wanted Arya to tell him. I believe the Faceless men knows about the stories of wargs beyond the wall and may have wanted to recruit them into their ranks. I may be off about this but I am thinking that the faceless men knows something about arya's abilities than they are letting on. I am dying to hear your thoughts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettes Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Interesting input on wargs. they would be very effective to kill People without anyone noticing. According to that: Jaqen might be a skinchanger. When Weese died it was because his dog who had always listened to his master attacked him. Could Jaqen have possesed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Jaqen used baslisk blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBrightflameII Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I think it was by coincidence. The Kindly man will try at make her a FM but Arya is too stubborn and will try to use what she learnt for revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pip Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I'm still of the opinion that Syrio = Jaqen for various reasons which I'll not go into now. If this is the case then the Faceless men have had an interest in Arya for some time. It just seems too coincidental that the first sword of bravos ( a style using blades such as Needle) happened to be in KL at a time when Ned was looking for a "dancing" instructor for Arya. Unfortunately this early interest raises more questions than answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncle Stark Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Agreed that it was likely coincidence, otherwise it just all seems a bit too far fetched. Jaqen recognized something in Arya, and made the call to give her the coin. Then he left her there to find her way across a wartorn country herself! Hardly a move of someone with careful planning to lure her across the narrow sea into their ranks. The warging thing... hm. It adds an interesting wrinkle. I am not sure if the kindly man knows about that or not. Is what the faceless men can do magic, and does that allow them to see that she is performing magic (i.e warging)? Or is he observant enough to figure it out some other way? In my numerous re-reads I never was sure he could, so I think it's still likely a secret she has successfully kept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I think there's something going on here. Seems to me that the Kindly Man knows that Arya isn't going to become a full-fledged Faceless Kid but he's giving her as much training as she can absorb. I get a similar feeling with Jon in the Night's Watch, that he's being moved along for some purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I have a crackpot theory that the FM have some prophecy or at least some recruitment profile regarding a rare girl with Valkyrie abilities, and that the first FM was a woman and not a man, who served the slaves as some nurse with food and drink. That's how she knew their prayers and was able to administer them the poison to help them die. And one of the sayings in the books is that poison is a woman's weapon. Valkyrie = "chooser of the slain". These were women in service of the god Odin who went to battlefields and with the power to choose who won, lost, died and lived, because they knew which side Odin wanted to win, which heroes he wanted to live or die. The battle would be dedicated to the names of the Valkyries overseeing it by the winners. When there was no battle, the Valkyries served the warriors (in Walhalla) as cupbearers. And I think Jaqen sees her as a "chooser of the slain", a woman sent by the Many Faced God to choose who dies and lives, to decide battles; that she has intuitive knowledge of the god's will. As an FM he is trained to observe. It took Gendry until they were only a few to figure out she was a girl, always sneaking off to pee by herself. But Jaqen would have observed this way way earlier. That's all he had time for as he sat in the cage. And then at some point, he decides to test her. Now let's see what Jaqen does: One of the men in irons was talking to her. Warily, Arya approached the wagon, one hand on Needle's hilt. The prisoner lifted an empty tankard, his chains rattling. "A man could use another taste of beer. A man has a thirst, wearing these heavy bracelets." ... "A man must be ashamed of the company he keeps, Arry," the handsome one said. "This man has the honor to be Jaqen H'ghar, once of the Free City of Lorath. Would that he were home. This man's ill-bred companions in captivity are named Rorge"—he waved his tankard at the noseless man—"and Biter." Biter hissed at her again, displaying a mouthful of yellowed teeth filed into points. "A man must have some name, is that not so? Biter cannot speak and Biter cannot write, yet his teeth are very sharp, so a man calls him Biter and he smiles. Are you charmed?" Arya backed away from the wagon. "No." They can't hurt me, she told herself, they're all chained up. He turned his tankard upside down. "A man must weep." (aCoK, Arya II) Jaqen's first interaction is to ask Arya for beer, lifting his tankard. If she does that, she acts symbolically as his "cupbearer". Doing this for a prisoner/criminal is a hint he's testing her for empathy. He tries to persuade her to overlook Rorge's and Biter's behaviour, but she steps back and does not give him a drink. The next time he textually adresses her (aside from thanking her for the treat of a spoon of rabbit) he asks her to free him and whether it is war Before they could hoot her down again, the sound came shuddering through the night—only it was no wolf this time, it was Kurz blowing his hunting horn, sounding danger. In a heartbeat, all of them were pulling on clothes and snatching for whatever weapons they owned. Arya ran for the gate as the horn sounded again. As she dashed past the barn, Biter threw himself furiously against his chains, and Jaqen H'ghar called out from the back of their wagon. "Boy! Sweet boy! Is it war, red war? Boy, free us. A man can fight. Boy!" She ignored him and plunged on. By then she could hear horses and shouts beyond the wall. (aCoK, Arya IV) So, the two first times Jaqen adresses Arya it's to have a drink, or to fight. Hmmm.... She frees them when all is lost and they must run, and the threesome is in danger of being burned alive. Jaqen saw her, but it was too hard to breathe, let alone talk. She threw the axe into the wagon. Rorge caught it and lifted it over his head, rivers of sooty sweat pouring down his noseless face. Arya was running, coughing. She heard the steel crash through the old wood, and again, again. An instant later came a crack as loud as thunder, and the bottom of the wagon came ripping loose in an explosion of splinters. (aCoK, Arya IV) Jaqen, Rorge and Biter join Amory's forces, while Arya, Gendry and Hot Pie are caught by the Mountain's men and marched to Harrenhal. During the march Arya starts to pray her list, which she recites nightly. At Harrenhal she works under Weese, and part of her job is "serving" drinks. Weese used Arya to run messages, draw water, and fetch food, and sometimes to serve at table in the Barracks Hall above the armory, where the men-at-arms took their meals. (aCoK, Arya VII) She's already a while in Harrenhal when Ser Amory returns and Arya discovers the three have joined Ser Amory. Rorge and Biter do not see her, Jaqen does, although he pretends he didn't. Rorge had donned a black halfhelm with a broad iron nasal that made it hard to see that he did not have a nose. Biter rode ponderously beside him on a destrier that looked ready to collapse under his weight. Half-healed burns covered his body, making him even more hideous than before. But Jaqen H'ghar still smiled. His garb was still ragged and filthy, but he had found time to wash and brush his hair. It streamed down across his shoulders, red and white and shiny, and Arya heard the girls giggling to each other in admiration. I should have let the fire have them. Gendry said to, I should have listened. If she hadn't thrown them that axe they'd all be dead. For a moment she was afraid, but they rode past her without a flicker of interest. Only Jaqen H'ghar so much as glanced in her direction, and his eyes passed right over her. He does not know me, she thought. She spent the rest of that day scrubbing steps inside the Wailing Tower. By evenfall her hands were raw and bleeding and her arms so sore they trembled when she lugged the pail back to the cellar. Too tired even for food, Arya begged Weese's pardons and crawled into her straw to sleep. "Weese," she yawned. "Dunsen, Chiswyck, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling. The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Gregor, Ser Amory, Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei." She thought she might add three more names to her prayer, but she was too tired to decide tonight. (aCoK, Arya VII) Remember that FM are good in spying. It is not farfetched for Jaqen to have investigated Arya, and overhear her prayer. Her prayer is her "choosing of the slain". That same night Jaqen wakes her. Jaqen H'ghar took his hand away. The cellar was black as pitch and she could not see his face, even inches away. She could smell him, though; his skin smelled clean and soapy, and he had scented his hair. "A boy becomes a girl," he murmured. "I was always a girl. I didn't think you saw me." "A man sees. A man knows." She remembered that she hated him. "You scared me. You're one of them now, I should have let you burn. What are you doing here? Go away or I'll yell for Weese." "A man pays his debts. A man owes three." "Three?" "The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life. This girl took three that were his. This girl must give three in their places. Speak the names, and a man will do the rest." He wants to help me, Arya realized with a rush of hope that made her dizzy. "Take me to Riverrun, it's not far, if we stole some horses we could—" He laid a finger on her lips. "Three lives you shall have of me. No more, no less. Three and we are done. So a girl must ponder." He kissed her hair softly. "But not too long." (aCoK, Arya VII) Another quote he "knows, sees and hears" things. Jaqen could not have known this directly from Gendry. But he could have overheard her shout "Winterfell" just as Hot Pie did during the battle at the holdfast at the Gods Eye, or overheard the conversation where Gendry warns her how he covered for her when Hot Pie wondered about her shouting that, or oeverheard Hot Pie asking Gendry directly about it. There are three occasion where Jaqen could have heard and seen Arya's tie to Winterfell. Her name Arry and the name Winterfell do not make it hard for him to deduce she's Arya Stark of Winterfell. The voice startled her. She leapt to her feet and drew her wooden sword. Jaqen H'ghar stood so still in the darkness that he seemed one of the trees. "A man comes to hear a name. One and two and then comes three. A man would have done." Arya lowered the splintery point toward the ground. "How did you know I was here?" "A man sees. A man hears. A man knows." ... "Some men have many names. Weasel. Arry. Arya." She backed away from him, until she was pressed against the heart tree. "Did Gendry tell?" "A man knows," he said again. "My lady of Stark." (aCoK, Arya IX) He offered her the three names. This is actually quite a lot. Supposedly the reasoning is that she saved 3 lives, and so 3 must die for balance. But the sole price for 3 names was throwing an axe into the cage. They basically still had to save themselves. She can choose any 3 names she wants, including a queen regent and a king. Quite a bargain isn't it? She gives the name Chyswick and Weese, and then realizes she should make the last one count. Vargo Hoat brings in the Northern prisoners, Gendry doesn't want to help, she blows off steam in the godswood with her stick and Jaqen tells her he wants a third name. He looked down at her pitilessly. "Three lives were snatched from a god. Three lives must be repaid. The gods are not mocked." His voice was silk and steel. "I never mocked." She thought for a moment. "The name . . . can I name anyone? And you'll kill him?" Jaqen H'ghar inclined his head. "A man has said." "Anyone?" she repeated. "A man, a woman, a little baby, or Lord Tywin, or the High Septon, or your father?" "A man's sire is long dead, but did he live, and did you know his name, he would die at your command." "Swear it," Arya said. "Swear it by the gods." "By all the gods of sea and air, and even him of fire, I swear it." He placed a hand in the mouth of the weirwood. "By the seven new gods and the old gods beyond count, I swear it." He has sworn. "Even if I named the king . . ." "Speak the name, and death will come. On the morrow, at the turn of the moon, a year from this day, it will come. A man does not fly like a bird, but one foot moves and then another and one day a man is there, and a king dies." He knelt beside her, so they were face-to-face. "A girl whispers if she fears to speak aloud. Whisper it now. Is it Joffrey?" Arya put her lips to his ear. "It's Jaqen H'ghar." Even in the burning barn, with walls of flame towering all around and him in chains, he had not seemed so distraught as he did now. "A girl . . . she makes a jest." She extorts Jaqen into helping her by giving him his name. Yes, he swore by all the gods, including for him the Many Faced God. But if he regards her as some type of "chooser of the slain" his distress at her giving him his own name would indeed be even more upsetting. Jaqen knows of the coming slaughter of the night - that the Bloody Mummers intend to kill Ser Amory's men. It is war. A battle there will be. This was the reason he came to inquire for the third name right then and there. As part of Ser Amory's troops he would be targeted just as well if he stays, so he must go, and know her third name. Jaqen's smile came and went. "A girl might . . . name another name then, if a friend did help?" "A girl might," she said. "If a friend did help." The knife vanished. "Come." "Now?" She had never thought he would act so quickly. "A man hears the whisper of sand in a glass. A man will not sleep until a girl unsays a certain name. Now, evil child." So, he orders her to make broth, and later appears with Biter and Rorge to fetch the broth. Jaqen makes a point of it to have her present as a witness, and dedicates the weasel soup action to her, by smearing his bloodied sword on her shirt. Biter licked the grease and honey off his fingers as Jaqen H'ghar donned a pair of heavy padded mitts. He gave a second pair to Arya. "A weasel will help." ... Inside the door a winding stair led down to the dungeons. Rorge led the way, with Jaqen and Arya bringing up the rear. "A girl will stay out of the way," he told her. ... "Fuck, we need bowls, cups, spoons—" "No you don't." Rorge heaved the scalding hot broth across the table, full in their faces. Jaqen H'ghar did the same. Biter threw his kettles too, swinging them underarm so they spun across the dungeon, raining soup. One caught the captain in the temple as he tried to rise. He went down like a sack of sand and lay still. The rest were screaming in agony, praying, or trying to crawl off. Arya pressed back against the wall as Rorge began to cut throats. Biter preferred to grab the men behind the head and under the chin and crack their necks with a single twist of his huge pale hands. Only one of the guards managed to get a blade out. Jaqen danced away from his slash, drew his own sword, drove the man back into a corner with a flurry of blows, and killed him with a thrust to the heart. The Lorathi brought the blade to Arya still red with heart's blood and wiped it clean on the front of her shift. "A girl should be bloody too. This is her work." ... "This of the soup, that was clever," the man Glover was saying. "I did not expect that. Was it Lord Hoat's idea?" Rorge wiped the snot off his chin with the back of his hand. "We are now." "This man has the honor to be Jaqen H'ghar, once of the Free City of Lorath. This man's discourteous companions are named Rorge and Biter. A lord will know which is Biter." He waved a hand toward Arya. "And here—" "I'm Weasel," she blurted, before he could tell who she really was. She did not want her name said here, where Rorge might hear, and Biter, and all these others she did not know. She saw Glover dismiss her. "Very well," he said. "Let's make an end to this bloody business." When they climbed back up the winding stair, they found the door guards lying in pools of their own blood. Northmen were running across the ward. Arya heard shouts. The door of Barracks Hall burst open and a wounded man staggered out screaming. Three others ran after him and silenced him with spear and sword. There was fighting around the gatehouse as well. Rorge and Biter rushed off with Glover, but Jaqen H'ghar knelt beside Arya. "A girl does not understand?" "Yes I do," she said, though she didn't, not truly. The Lorathi must have seen it on her face. "A goat has no loyalty. Soon a wolf banner is raised here, I think. But first a man would hear a certain name unsaid." She has served, she has chosen the slain, she chose a side in a battle and forced him to help fight for her chosen side. With the battle over, Jaqen has her unname him, changes his face, offers her to go with him to teach it, but when she refuses he gives her the coin, and teaches her the words, before he departs. But it's not only Jaqen who dedicates the Harrenhal switch to Arya. Shagwell does too, and many other people, including servants. Of course, Vargo Hoat would have switched sides anyway, but people regard her as the one who decided the battle for the Mummers and the Northerners. All morning she watched the Bloody Mummers strip the dead of their valuables and drag the corpses to the Flowstone Yard, where a pyre was laid to dispose of them. Shagwell the Fool hacked the heads off two dead knights and pranced about the castle swinging them by the hair and making them talk. "What did you die of?" one head asked. "Hot weasel soup," replied the second. Arya was set to mopping up dried blood. No one said a word to her beyond the usual, but every so often she would notice people looking at her strangely. Robett Glover and the other men they'd freed must have talked about what had happened down in the dungeon, and then Shagwell and his stupid talking heads started in about the weasel soup. Vargo Hoat came forward. "My lord, Harrenhal ith yourth." The lord gave answer, but too softly for Arya to hear. Robett Glover and Ser Aenys Frey, freshly bathed and clad in clean new doublets and cloaks, came up to join them. After some brief talk, Ser Aenys led them over to Rorge and Biter. Arya was surprised to see them still here; somehow she would have expected them to vanish when Jaqen did. Arya heard the harsh sound of Rorge's voice, but not what he was saying. Then Shagwell pounced on her, dragging her out across the yard. "My lord, my lord," he sang, tugging at her wrist, "here's the weasel who made the soup!" ... "My squire could take a lesson from you, it would seem. Frequent leechings are the secret of a long life. A man must purge himself of bad blood. You will do, I think. For so long as I remain at Harrenhal, Nan, you shall be my cupbearer, and serve me at table and in chambers." This time she knew better than to say that she'd sooner work in the stables. "Yes, your lord. I mean, my lord." And finally, Lord Bolton makes her his cupbearer. The serving of drink reoccurs several times more - with the men in the crow cages and Stoney Sept, when Lem and Gendry help her up, before Anguy puts them out of their mysery with his arrows. - with the man of Pinkmaiden, before Sandor gives him the gift of mercy and puts the dagger through his heart - with Sandor, as he begs her for the gift of mercy. She gives him the water, but refuses to give him the gift of mercy, possibly thereby choosing him to live on as the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle. - with the bravo at the pool in the HoBaW when she enters for the first time. She sees him at the pool, reaching. Takes the cup and fills it with the poisoned water and gives it to him. Thereby personally giving him the gift of mercy, completely unaware of it. As her first act within the HoBaW with the waif and KM nearby, watching her no doubt, this must speak volumes to their minds. She could have drunk from the cup herself or inspect the bravo first and cry for help instead. But her first act was to give him the gift of mercy. - inside the HoBaW she serves as a cupbearer to the FM during their meetings. She chooses for Dareon to die. While initially it seems to Arya that she's punished for this by being made blind, in fact we know this is not punishment, but speeding up her training. In a way she's rewarded for the act. So, the "chooser of the slain" + "cupbearer" feature comes back time and time again. She is involved in a battle at Harrenhal, and because she actively chose a side, the battle ends up being dedicated to her. If the KM recognizes the similar things in her as Jaqen did (or Jaqen informed him about her), then I expect they not just want to train her as an FM, but hope she becomes a "chooser" for their order. Someone in the order makes the calls - which assassin prayers will be answered and for which price. The Many Faced God obviously does not show them who. The first FM just decided for him- or herself "This prayer [to murder the slave master] would please the god," and did the deed. So, it are humans who make that decision. Since they are able to vary the prices, from an axe thrown for 3 names (including a king) to 2 sellsword armies or a dragon egg, the FM are capable of asking such a high price for a target that they know beforehand the one who requests for such a kill to say "no" in the end, and they therefore do not have to perform the act. It seems important that this choosing is done almost by intuition, without rational justification. There was little rational justification and convincing herself that Dareon deserved to die. She had the background info on him, and decided it was time for him to die. With the insurance man she's trying to convince herself with all sorts of silly reasons he deserves to die. The KM does not want her to do the latter. And yet he gives her enough background info on the man - that he cons hard working captains, who put their live savings in their cargo and ship, out of their money and puts widows and their children out on the street to beg by refusing to pay up when the captain and ship are lost at sea. Once, she knows this, she has no further need to justify her action and does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Jaqen DID know who she was. He addressed her by name. I'm thinking he just recognized talent and the necessary conditions of traumatization creating a state of potential moral flexibility and thought she was a promising potential recruit. And who knows, maybe he gets some kind of bonus for recruiting good assassins. They could totally have a profit sharing program. Maybe he gets a cut of the payments for each of Arya's hits. Like the Amway of assassin culture. Not sure if there's anything more to it. But...if they're actively seeking out people who have skinchanging ability, it does make some sense that the Kindly Man never mentioned that Arya was "cheating" by looking through the cat's eyes. Unless of course he just didn't know about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 He knew her by name, so unless the faceless man know every high born Westerosi children, or are able to read minds, he knew who she was in the first place. As for the coincidence of finding her and managing to make her cross the Narrow Sea, I don't think he was there to escort her… he was there to just subtly point the direction, if she follows it is good, if not… and they choose people who are likely to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOne-EyedHound Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 She might be the Bran of the Faceless men, a lot of signs point to her meeting with Jaqen being no accident. Or she just got there by circumstances and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Agreed that it was likely coincidence, otherwise it just all seems a bit too far fetched. Jaqen recognized something in Arya, and made the call to give her the coin. Then he left her there to find her way across a wartorn country herself! Hardly a move of someone with careful planning to lure her across the narrow sea into their ranks. I agree with this, not only were there way too many obstacles for Arya to overcome for this plan too work, but a great deal of horrible misfortunes that happened which influenced her decision to head east across the sea. Not only that, I think it was happenstance that she was so close to a port with a ship heading to Bravos. If I recall correctly, it was her original plan to find a ship to Eastwach by the sea to try and find Jon. If that was Jaquens' plan, without all of these things happening (RW, the hounds death?) he he gets a big fat FAIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I'd rather like to know who the women are in the group. The Waif doesn't seem to go out on assignments much and it's been mentioned that female FM are rare but they exist. I want to know who in the cast is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I agree with this, not only were there way too many obstacles for Arya to overcome for this plan too work, but a great deal of horrible misfortunes that happened which influenced her decision to head east across the sea. Not only that, I think it was happenstance that she was so close to a port with a ship heading to Bravos. If I recall correctly, it was her original plan to find a ship to Eastwach by the sea to try and find Jon. If that was Jaquens' plan, without all of these things happening (RW, the hounds death?) he he gets a big fat FAIL. Not if it's important that she volunteers. It's remarkable that she gets to name 3 people for throwing an axe into a burning cage, and isn't even required to go to the HoBaW for him to kill even one of those of names. I mean, in theory she could have said, "The Mountain, Queen Cersei, King Joffrey." She has some high profile targets on her list, and Jaqen was willing to do them. He almost begged her for it to be Joffrey when he wanted her to give him the 3rd name. Then he gives her the coin and leaves it up to her. And then when she arrives at the HoBaW the KM offers several times to make another arrangement for her if that is what she wants. It seems important to both Jaqen and KM that she participates and becomes an FM voluntarily. That is very peculiar. And if it is a particular requirement that she in particular volunteers, then he didn't fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Not if it's important that she volunteers. It's remarkable that she gets to name 3 people for throwing an axe into a burning cage, and isn't even required to go to the HoBaW for him to kill even one of those of names. I mean, in theory she could have said, "The Mountain, Queen Cersei, King Joffrey." She has some high profile targets on her list, and Jaqen was willing to do them. He almost begged her for it to be Joffrey when he wanted her to give him the 3rd name. Then he gives her the coin and leaves it up to her. And then when she arrives at the HoBaW the KM offers several times to make another arrangement for her if that is what she wants. It seems important to both Jaqen and KM that she participates and becomes an FM voluntarily. That is very peculiar. And if it is a particular requirement that she in particular volunteers, then he didn't fail. But none of this addresses the points that I brought up. Without all of the innumerable amount of unpridictable events that took place she doesn't go there whether it's voluntary or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 But none of this addresses the points that I brought up. Without all of the innumerable amount of unpridictable events that took place she doesn't go there whether it's voluntary or not. Because it doesn't matter. If she's some prophesized "chooser of the slain" as I propose, it doesn't matter whether she gets there because of coincidence or not, because they'd believe it's her destiny anyhow. The fact that it took that many coincidences, luck, and personal choice would only enhance the impression that it's destiny in their eyes. ETA: it's what I call the effect of serendipity. Let's say someone has a divination question and goes to a Tarot card reader. The Tarot card reader, shuffles cards, has the person ask the question silently in their head while holding the car, then shuffles the cards again, spread them out, picks 10 cards blindly out of the spread out pack, turnd them around and starts to explain the meaning of these cards (and there are plenty of several meanings appliccable anyway), and the listener will automatically look for conncetions between what the reader is telling about the cards and his or her personal life events related to the question, finds it fits (of course it fits). And then will react gobsmacked, because they've seen all those coincidences leading up the cards that were picked and be very spooked about it. It's exactly out of coincidences coming together that people give it more meaning and importance... and this concept is called serendipity. It's an almost irresistable urge for humans to think "destiny" when these things happen, because in hindsight they get convinced it can't be coincidence at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 It's remarkable that she gets to name 3 people for throwing an axe into a burning cage I agree that something is off with this and might mean something, just not sure what. This is the only instance I can recall of a sacrifice being made because a life was saved. It just seems wierd, I mean if two armies are battling does a sacrifice have to be made every time someone saves their friend or comrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Because it doesn't matter. If she's some prophesized "chooser of the slain" as I propose, it doesn't matter whether she gets there because of coincidence or not, because they'd believe it's her destiny anyhow. The fact that it took that many coincidences, luck, and personal choice would only enhance the impression that it's destiny in their eyes. ETA: it's what I call the effect of serendipity. Let's say someone has a divination question and goes to a Tarot card reader. The Tarot card reader, shuffles cards, has the person ask the question silently in their head while holding the car, then shuffles the cards again, spread them out, picks 10 cards blindly out of the spread out pack, turnd them around and starts to explain the meaning of these cards (and there are plenty of several meanings appliccable anyway), and the listener will automatically look for conncetions between what the reader is telling about the cards and his or her personal life events related to the question, finds it fits (of course it fits). And then will react gobsmacked, because they've seen all those coincidences leading up the cards that were picked and be very spooked about it. It's exactly out of coincidences coming together that people give it more meaning and importance... and this concept is called serendipity. It's an almost irresistable urge for humans to think "destiny" when these things happen, because in hindsight they get convinced it can't be coincidence at all.Sorry, I haven't gotten that far in the thread yet, so didn't see your theory yet(which I see is quite long) but I'll give it a read. To your point of it being destiny, why would Jaquen have to do anything if it was going to happen anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling Mad Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I think there's something going on here. Seems to me that the Kindly Man knows that Arya isn't going to become a full-fledged Faceless Kid but he's giving her as much training as she can absorb. I get a similar feeling with Jon in the Night's Watch, that he's being moved along for some purpose. Agreed. Its too much of a coincidence that Arya is being trained by the FM without thee FM having a hidden purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGBeyondAsshai Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 It feels like there's a reason to it. And yes, I think the unusual dancing master included, Arya has been on this path even before Jaqen. Every "instructor" she's spent time with, (from Syrio to Jaqen to the Brotherhood to the Hound) has given her something to add to her kill skills experience bag. BUT then I think about FM rules. You can't kill someone you know personally, right? I mean, she does anyway, but they seem pretty strict about it as a group. So if it was all designed, who is it that they want her to kill? Dany? Bloodraven? Doran? Those are the only ones I can think of, because she knows everyone in KL and she's from the North and she's gotten around a lot in Riverlands and Braavos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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