TeamRhllor Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I'm not great at making convincing theories, but I'm almost certain of this one. If you have any evidence otherwise, please feel free to point it out. I believe that the long night was resolved by a pact, not by humans beating the Others. The pact was an establishment of a boundary that was not to be crossed. As a result, the Others built the wall to separate the two realms (they are the only known beings that possess Ice Magic). For thousands of years the pact went unbroken, but eventually the humans forgot the pact and started ranging and inhabiting the land beyond the wall. That's why the Others kill people beyond the wall. This hasn't broke whatever magic pact that still prevents them from crossing the wall, but I really believe the Others built the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Sounds like you might enjoy the Heresy thread over on the ADwD page. Come across and have a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiko Dragonhorn Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 There's not actually any evidence so far that the Wall even blocks their crossing or their magic. People say it does... but words are wind, and I can claim this small rock I'm holding is what stops them. Very likely they did build it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westorosi Batgirl Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 If you think the wall blocks their crossing why didn't they build it so humans couldn'tc cross it either? If they don't want humans on their side of the wall then they only have themselves to blame. Also it doesn't explain Craster sacrificing to the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon89 Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 There could be a second wall further north at the edge of the Land of Always Winter (an area we have no information about), which would make the space between them a sort of demilitarized zone. Maybe the free folk were encroaching on the Others territory, maybe Mances buildup and organization of the Freefolk accelerated the speed at which the Others decided to react. I does seem the further north people go the more the wights and Others show up though. Tormund's description of the Others attacking freefolk and the escape of the survivors after the battle of the Fist of the First Men seems more like herding than actually attacks with intent to annihilate. Craster may have swung a deal with the Others for protection from them and possibly other people (Freefolk and the Watch), keeping him free to rule his little despotic castle so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRhllor Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 If you think the wall blocks their crossing why didn't they build it so humans couldn'tc cross it either? If they don't want humans on their side of the wall then they only have themselves to blame. Also it doesn't explain Craster sacrificing to the Others. Yes it does. He was allowed to stay beyond the wall because he sacrificed his sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywintersong Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The books seem to make pretty clear that the First Men built the wall, and that it wasn't built all at once. Even if the legendary Bran the Builder didn't start the wall, it was raised over generations of nights watchmen. The fact the the wall seems to block the connection between Jon and Ghost does seem to imply that there is some kind of barrier magic. Especially since there is a magical horn to bring it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westorosi Batgirl Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Yes it does. He was allowed to stay beyond the wall because he sacrificed his sons. You said in the OP that the line was not to be crossed. The fact that Craster has an arrangement with the Others tells me that there is no pact between humans and Others. Otherwise the Others would have killed Craster for breaking the original pact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 You said in the OP that the line was not to be crossed. The fact that Craster has an arrangement with the Others tells me that there is no pact between humans and Others. Otherwise the Others would have killed Craster for breaking the original pact.Unless Craster offered them a different pact and they decided to accept it rather than killing him. Why is that impossible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRhllor Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Unless Craster offered them a different pact and they decided to accept it rather than killing him. Why is that impossible? This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRhllor Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 The books seem to make pretty clear that the First Men built the wall, and that it wasn't built all at once. Even if the legendary Bran the Builder didn't start the wall, it was raised over generations of nights watchmen. The fact the the wall seems to block the connection between Jon and Ghost does seem to imply that there is some kind of barrier magic. Especially since there is a magical horn to bring it down. C'mon, there's no chance it was built by man. Sure, men may have added on (that much is known) but there's no way it was built by humans alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRhllor Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 There's not actually any evidence so far that the Wall even blocks their crossing or their magic. People say it does... but words are wind, and I can claim this small rock I'm holding is what stops them. Very likely they did build it. Coldhands, a former brother of the nights watch, was not allowed to pass beyond the wall to help Bran. Why? Because he's a wight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywintersong Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 C'mon, there's no chance it was built by man. Sure, men may have added on (that much is known) but there's no way it was built by humans alone. Why not? People have access to magic in the world of asoiaf. What is so hard to believe... The height? They have had a heck of a long time to do it! The magic? Many different people use magic of varying sources throughout the series. Why is it so hard to believe that people could build Harrenhal, etc but not the Wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The wights can't cross it unless carried through by humans. Coldhands can't cross it. I'd bet money the Other can't cross it. Unless they really, REALLY wanted to make sure successive generations of Others stayed away from those pesky humans (a la Disney's The Little Mermaid) it wouldn't make any sense to ward their own structure against themselves. And quite frankly, if the Others HAD built the Wall, wouldn't it be warded against people crossing it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I'd bet money the Other can't cross it. Unless they really, REALLY wanted to make sure successive generations of Others stayed away from those pesky humans (a la Disney's The Little Mermaid)I love the idea of the Wall as more of a Berlin than a Hadrian's. (I also love that you turned Disney's mermaids into East Germany, but I just got back from Berlin, and didn't just get back from the famous sunken city of Atlanta, so...)8000 years ago, the Others had a glorious people's (Others'?) revolution, and began their progress toward the utopian dissolution of the state. But of course restructuring the economy takes some time, and some of the short-sighted are bound to be seduced by the decadence of the humans and abandon the revolution. The building of the Wall was just a temporary measure to protect the revolution during its vulnerable infancy. And, just like Checkpoint Charlie, Checkpoint Nightfort only allowed foreigners and allies, not Others, to cross.Sadly, just as the famous Cafe Adler went out of business (although it's now reopened as Café Einstein), the famous Nightfort went out of business (although Jon was recently looking to change that). So much lost history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon89 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Coldhands, a former brother of the nights watch, was not allowed to pass beyond the wall to help Bran. Why? Because he's a wight. We only know he could not pass the Black Gate in the Nightfort. I think that people are misinterpreting that the Wall blocks skinchanging/wolf dreams. ASoS: Bran I He could not smell them, nor hear their howls by night, yet he felt their presence at his back . . . all but the sister they had lost. His tail drooped when he remembered her. Four now, not five. Four and one more, the white who has no voice. Nymeria, Summer, Shaggydog, Greywind and Ghost ADwD: Jon I Once they had been six, five whimpering blind in the snow beside their dead mother, sucking cool milk from her hard dead nipples whilst he crawled off alone. Four remained … and one the white wolf could no longer sense. Ghost, Nymeria, Summer, Shaggydog and Greywind is "recently" dead, killed during the RW and now unable to be sensed. Ghost counts himself as part of the pack, the others wolves think of the pack, plus the other one (Ghost). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Why the hell should the Others build the Wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 It was Brandon the Builder who built the Wall with help from the giants. I think it is possible however, that Brandon agreed that the Wall would serve as a border between the two races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I tend to suspect humans that had access to ice magic in the way that Melisandre does with fire magic. I'm thinking of those hybrids which the Others supposedly sired on wildling women. I'm one who thinks that the Starks have some of this "Other-blood," so I tend suspect Bran the Builder may have gone down this road at some point. Think about Mel's fire transformation vision scene in ADWD. The fire is inside of her, searing and transforming her, and she bleeds that black blood. We also learn she doesn't need to eat or sleep, and she seems to have an extended lifespan. Take this process and use ice instead of fire, and you may have some idea about the origins of either the Others, or just human ice sorcerers akin to an icy version of Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Wjat I find particularly interesting about the idea of wights crossing the Wall is the fact that the wights are still able to be animated by the blue star eye magic. Whether it's the the Others themselves controlling and or animating the wights, or something more nebulous like the heart of winter (fountain of ice magic), that magic can extend beyond the Wall to animate and control the wights (if the wights are in fact remote controlled). I'm open to the idea that they had to be carried in order to cross, but we still have the issue of this blue star eye magic which can operate south of the Wall, on some level. When Coldhands explains why he cannot cross through the Black Gate, he refers to old spells set into the foundation of the Wall, as opposed to just be black gate being set with spells. The Wall definitely (in the opinion of Coldhands) has spells set into it. Storms End, another supposed Brandon the Builder job, also has spells set into the walls, which we know from the whole shadowbaby routine. That to me links the beginning of construction of Storms End and of the Wall to a common era. Perhaps not the same builder, but it seems like the same / similar magic. Mel says that there are spells no shadow can pas at Storms End, and the WW are called pale shadows or white shadows, so this is at least mildly suggestive that the Others cannot pass the Wall. I do wonder if climbing over it counts - ice spiders can climb ice walls, or they aren't really spiders. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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