Clegane'sPup Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I’m doing a re-read of ASOS. Bran & company are at a place Bran dubs Tumbledown Tower. He is having a wolf dream and Summer sees a kite. Yep, a kite. He could feel the high stone calling him. Up he went, loping easy at first, then faster and higher, his strong legs eating up the incline. Birds burst from the branches overhead as he raced by, clawing and flapping their way into the sky. He could hear the wind sighing up amongst the leaves, the squirrels chittering to one another, even the sound a pinecone made as it tumbled to the forest floor. The smells were a song around him, a song that filled the good green world. Gravel flew from beneath his paws as he gained the last few feet to stand upon the crest. The sun hung above the tall pines huge and red, and below him the trees and hills went on and on as far as he could see or smell. A kite was circling far above, dark against the pink sky. ASOS Bran I (3rd book) Is it possible that the fire at WF actually released a slumbering full grown dragon from the broken/Burned Tower? Before you scoff, remember that Aemon said he should not have left the wall because the cold preserves. The below quote is about the winged snake Summer saw. Yet as one smell drew them onward, others warned them back. He sniffed at the drifting smoke. Men, many men, many horses, and fire, fire, fire. No smell was more dangerous, not even the hard cold smell of iron, the stuff of man-claws and hardskin. The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone. Behind the cliffs tall fires were eating up the stars. All through the night the fires crackled, and once there was a great roar and a crash that made the earth jump under his feet. ACOK Bran VII (2nd book) "A queen stayed there for a night." Old Nan had told him the story, but Maester Luwin had confirmed most of it. "Alysanne, the wife of King Jaehaerys the Conciliator. He's called the Old King because he reigned so long, but he was young when he first came to the Iron Throne. In those days, it was his wont to travel all over the realm. When he came to Winterfell, he brought his queen, six dragons, and half his court. The king had matters to discuss with his Warden of the North, and Alysanne grew bored, so she mounted her dragon Silverwing and flew north to see the Wall. ASOS Jon V The above quote implies the Starks and Targs have a long history together that we do not know much and more about. Is it a coincidence that only Dragonstone and WF have been mentioned to have gargoyles standing guard? Is it possible that the fiery destruction of WF woke a hibernating full grown dragon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Emrick of Seagard Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 So, you are suggesting the "dragon" of the last ACOK chapter went north of The Wall? Or some smallfolk child has a fucking epic dragon kite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 So, you are suggesting the "dragon" of the last ACOK chapter went north of The Wall? Or some smallfolk child has a fucking epic dragon kite? Since you are asking so nicely. There has been much speculation and discussion about the winged snake Summer saw after the burning of WF. While Bran & company are traveling north, not yet at or beyond the wall, Summer/Bran has another wolf dream where the kite is seen circling high above. (Strangely enough kite is the authors word not mine) So I was wondering, Is it possible that the fiery destruction of WF woke a hibernating full grown dragon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Why do you assume that the first quote is about a dragon? A kite is a bird of prey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 There are a number of people who believe that this was a dragon. I remain skeptical. Personally I think that Summer just sees Winterfell burning and describes it in "wolf words". We do have other examples where different wording is used to describe stuff through the wolf pov - walls/castle = man rock, sword = man claws, armour = hardskin. As such, I think that "kite" = bird. I read a nice post today that Summer may have seen the red comet. I think that this is a good possibility as well. Was thinking this over recently. Seems possible to me that what we read is a description of the comet from a "wolf's-eye view." Part of what I find persuasive in this interpretation is the symmetry it would provide between that particular chapter - the last BRAN POV in Clash - and the first BRAN POV in the same book. Recall that his first chapter begins with Bran taking an opinion poll of the Winterfell household to discover why the direwolves are howling... Luwin suggests the wolves are confused, howling at the comet because they've mistaken it for the moon. Osha and Old Nan say the wolves know better than the maester; they tell Bran the comet means "dragons... fire and blood, and nothing sweet." If, in Summer's eyes, the comet above a sacked and burning Winterfell appears as "a great winged snake whose roar is a river of flame," then Martin will have brought us 'round full circle on the question that kicked off Bran's narrative arc in Clash. That sort of symmetrical framing makes for an attractive reading, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Why do you assume that the first quote is about a dragon? A kite is a bird of prey I didn't know that a kite was a a bird of prey. Perhaps I was hoping for the magical mystical dragon in the sky. :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 A kite is a kind of bird, GRRM did not mean a kite. The dragon is another question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 A kite is a kind of bird, GRRM did not mean a kite. The dragon is another question... I have admitted that I did know a kite is a bird of prey. Kicked my ahh haa moment out the window. Talk to me about your second line "The dragon is another question." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I have admitted that I did know a kite is a bird of prey. Kicked my ahh haa moment out the window. Talk to me about your second line "The dragon is another question." I interpreted the "great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame" to be smoke rising out of Winterfell (the snake) combined with the red comet (the river of flame). Bran perception when inside Summer is always a bit distorted. We will have to wait for the next two books to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 I interpreted the "great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame" to be smoke rising out of Winterfell (the snake) combined with the red comet (the river of flame). Bran perception when inside Summer is always a bit distorted. We will have to wait for the next two books to be sure. Your thought is interesting. Thanks. The comet has meaning for quite a few people. Dany thinks it is hers, Theon thinks it is his. The Maesters have their own opinion. Yes, I agree, hopefully the next two books will give some straight forward information about the many disputed questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I have admitted that I did know a kite is a bird of prey. Kicked my ahh haa moment out the window. Talk to me about your second line "The dragon is another question." Basically, I think Summer might have seen a dragon, but maybe it was a vision of the future, or the comet itself. It would seem really convoluted to throw a fourth fire dragon into the story and just have it show up out of nowhere in book 6 or 7, and then we are supposed to go, "Oh, it's that dragon from way long ago that nobody saw except Summer." But maybe Bran did have a glimpse of the future and there will be Dragons over WF later. It really sounds like Summer saw a dragon, but I don't see a way that it actually fits into the story if he did. It's one of the weirdest moments in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westorosi Batgirl Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The "great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame" is clearly describing a fire arrow. Summer smells many men, horses and fire, odd that he doesn't smell a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Why do you assume that the first quote is about a dragon? A kite is a bird of preyThis...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kite_(bird) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon89 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Various raptor bird of prey fall into the "Kite" category, Red Tail Hawks to in NA fall into the category, though most members that are in the Kite family are European or African. FYI, don't feel bad about not understanding it was a bird, many of the kites (birds) actually hover on thermals to hunt. So the likely origin of the toys name is likely a reference to kite bird hovering in one spot like they were on a string. The "great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame" is clearly describing a fire arrow. Summer smells many men, horses and fire, odd that he doesn't smell a dragon. Nailed it. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avlonnic Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Good effort, OP. There are a number of people who believe that this was a dragon. I remain skeptical. Personally I think that Summer just sees Winterfell burning and describes it in "wolf words". We do have other examples where different wording is used to describe stuff through the wolf pov - walls/castle = man rock, sword = man claws, armour = hardskin. As such, I think that "kite" = bird. I read a nice post today that Summer may have seen the red comet. I think that this is a good possibility as well. The Snowfyre Chorus, on 01 Aug 2015 - 07:36 AM, said: Was thinking this over recently. Seems possible to me that what we read is a description of the comet from a "wolf's-eye view." Part of what I find persuasive in this interpretation is the symmetry it would provide between that particular chapter - the last BRAN POV in Clash - and the first BRAN POV in the same book. Recall that his first chapter begins with Bran taking an opinion poll of the Winterfell household to discover why the direwolves are howling... Luwin suggests the wolves are confused, howling at the comet because they've mistaken it for the moon. Osha and Old Nan say the wolves know better than the maester; they tell Bran the comet means "dragons... fire and blood, and nothing sweet."If, in Summer's eyes, the comet above a sacked and burning Winterfell appears as "a great winged snake whose roar is a river of flame," then Martin will have brought us 'round full circle on the question that kicked off Bran's narrative arc in Clash. That sort of symmetrical framing makes for an attractive reading, in my opinion. Edited by Consigliere, Today, 02:53 PM. I really like the symmetry proposed by The Snowfyre Chorus that you shared. I didn't know that a kite was a a bird of prey. Perhaps I was hoping for the magical mystical dragon in the sky. :crying: The kite is a bird of prey in the same order with hawks, eagles, harriers, and vultures. They eat small mammals, etc., and are known to eat carrion so there is a sense of death about the scene of the circling of the kite. But your thoughts about Martin's use of 'kite' here to mean something other than a bird are not necessarily without merit. Martin chooses words with care. If he wanted to convey that the dead and burning Winterfell was attracting carrion feeders, he could have used crows or ravens as he is wont to do. The implications of 'kite' are foreboding on several fronts so it might point to a deeper literary meaning in that scene. I've found only 6 instances where Martin uses the word 'kite' in the first 5 novels. The first few clearly refer to kite as a bird. 1) In COK, Daenerys II, the outer wall of Qarth has carved scenes of many creatures, one of which is a kite flying. 2) IN SOS, Bran I, Summer sees a kite circling, dark against a pink sky, as you have referenced. 3) DWD, Victarion I, the Iron Fleet that Victarion is leading toward Dany includes an ironborn longship named 'Kite', no doubt named after the bird of prey because the ship is used for piracy. The other three uses of the word occur later in the novels after Cersei agrees to permit the Faith to militarize. The new Swords and Stars of the Faith use kite-shaped shields not common in the 7 Kingdoms since the Conquest by Aegon, hundreds of years prior. So the word 'kite' used in the Winterfell scene could represent several things. 1) The circling of the kite, waiting to descend upon the corpses left behind, could illustrate the death and destruction at Winterfell and hint at the many houses of Westeros that will be circling the castle, hoping to make Winterfell their own. 2) 'Kite' could foreshadow the pirate ships that will be heading to Dany later and then back to reaving on Westeros. 3) 'Kite' could also portend the danger that will arise when Cersei negotiates the renewed militarization of the Faith and finds them out of control. Fun stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hol Horse Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 It's totes a wyvern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 This...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kite_(bird) nope, had nada to do with wiki. I assumed that the kite Summer saw was a dragon flying high in the sky. Rather I should say I hoped. Kites do not like my neck of the woods as per NAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 It's totes a wyvern. Perhaps you know what you mean but I do not know what you mean. Does it have something to do with why Dragonstone and WF have gargoyles standing watch on there walls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncle Karstark Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 For a second I thought you were going to go on about a modern "kite" being seen.That would have been amusing at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 For a second I thought you were going to go on about a modern "kite" being seen. That would have been amusing at least. "Modern." Kites are ancient in our world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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