KingStannisFan Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 If he didn't have Renly killed thousands of Baratheon bannermen on both sides would've died. So yes, he "murdered" his brother... but his brother BETRAYED his older brother and committed treason in the process. King Stannis may have never had a son, so Renly might have been King one day anyway, and he should've also known that being gay and being King would probably end badly for him too if anyone caught wind of it. He made him an offer he wouldn't have made to anyone else because he was his brother, despite the fact that he and Robert never treated him right. He always supported his family, and they didn't show him the same courtesy. I think it's a great tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hos the Hostage Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 For me, it is not the murdering of a brother that is the problem, but the way he was murdered. Using a shadow, in the night after a parley, the day before battle, leaving him no way to defend himself. Even Euron's way of using a Facelessman was more agreeable. Renly's death was no proper execution. It was treachery and cowardice. It still would have been okay, if not for Stannis claiming he was asleep in his tents and his hands were clean while Renly was murdered. He even went so far as to accuse Brienne, when he is either supremely brainwashed by Melisandre or a terrible liar who knows he killed Renly using his prick (impregnating Melisandre), not with his hands. I respect Stannis for a great many things, but this one act was disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Little Sister Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 For me, it is not the murdering of a brother that is the problem, but the way he was murdered. Using a shadow, in the night after a parley, the day before battle, leaving him no way to defend himself. Even Euron's way of using a Facelessman was more agreeable. Renly's death was no proper execution. It was treachery and cowardice. It still would have been okay, if not for Stannis claiming he was asleep in his tents and his hands were clean while Renly was murdered. He even went so far as to accuse Brienne, when he is either supremely brainwashed by Melisandre or a terrible liar who knows he killed Renly using his prick (impregnating Melisandre), not with his hands. I respect Stannis for a great many things, but this one act was disgusting. Couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterOfDeath Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 What else could Stannis have done? I doubt he could afford a faceless man. This was the least messy and bloody way to kill him. He did offer Renly peace but Renly denied. Renly was in the wrong because Stannis was the rightful heir. What was Stannis to do? Let Renly become king and just stand aside and be humilated as a complete joke? It was the smartest and most humane way to deal with Renly. Renly was preparing to attack and kill Stannis too and thousands would have died in that battle. That's not to say I don't think Renly might have made a much better king but by all the laws of Westeros, Stannis was the rightful heir, I can't blame him defending his claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I have no problem with Stannis fans thinking Renly deserved to die, he was his enemy but what is this he would have gotten Baratheons killed nonsense? Stannis basically brought the legitimate House Baratheon to ruin by killing Renly. There were no Stormlanders on Stannis' side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bastard Snow Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 20000 men vs 2000 men.I doubt Stannis's side would have stood a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melx Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 no he wasn't, Stannis broke the law when he joined rebellion against true king and after that rules do not apply anymore and Renly had every right to claim throne as long as he had army to put him on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingStannisFan Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 I have no problem with Stannis fans thinking Renly deserved to die, he was his enemy but what is this he would have gotten Baratheons killed nonsense? Stannis basically brought the legitimate House Baratheon to ruin by killing Renly. There were no Stormlanders on Stannis' side. Geez, maybe because ROBERT STOLE STORM'S END FROM HIM? After he held it against ALL ODDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Geez, maybe because ROBERT STOLE STORM'S END FROM HIM? After he held it against ALL ODDS Robert stole his own lordship, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingStannisFan Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Robert stole his own lordship, right. Robert was King Storm's End then belonged to Stannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor227 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Renly didn't betray Stannis. Renly declared while Stannis was AWOL, dude didn't even reply to Ned's request to come back to King's Landing and take his seat on the council. There was no indication that Stannis was going to declare, or do anything more than brood on Dragonstone. Stannis is the guy who came late to the party with ridiculous incest claims to justify his taking the throne. Stannis did what he did, Renly did what he did. You don't need to justify yourself in war. Stannis believed firmly in the incest being true, which made him the lawful king. Renly believed that Stannis was a bitter late-comer to a rebellion that would seat him on the throne. They both had their pride, their backers for the Crown, and if either backed down, they'd be crushed under the weight they assumed in going for the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor227 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Robert was King Storm's End then belonged to Stannis GRRM mentioned that it was perfectly within Robert's rights to keep Storm's End, Dragonstone, and King's Landing, and that his giving them out was indicative of his great (but often careless) generosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingStannisFan Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Renly didn't betray Stannis. Renly declared while Stannis was AWOL, dude didn't even reply to Ned's request to come back to King's Landing and take his seat on the council. There was no indication that Stannis was going to declare, or do anything more than brood on Dragonstone. Stannis is the guy who came late to the party with ridiculous incest claims to justify his taking the throne. Stannis did what he did, Renly did what he did. You don't need to justify yourself in war. Stannis believed firmly in the incest being true, which made him the lawful king. Renly believed that Stannis was a bitter late-comer to a rebellion that would seat him on the throne. They both had their pride, their backers for the Crown, and if either backed down, they'd be crushed under the weight they assumed in going for the throne. King Stannis was CORRECT so the claims were not "ridiculous" It cost Ned Stark HIS LIFE and Renly knew all thisl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterOfDeath Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 If Stannis had Storm's End, he could have been able to use Ederic Storm to prove to people that Joffery, Tommen and Mycella were not Robert's trueborn children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Robert was King Storm's End then belonged to Stannis No, Robert was King and Lord of Storm's End. He invested it in Renly because he had the authority to do so as king and the lord of Storm's End. Where does it say that the king can't hold other titles and lands. He still made Stannis a second son one of the most powerful lords in the realm, if he gave Stannis Storm's End he'd probably complain about not getting Dragonstone after capturing it and being Robert's heir. Either way what has this got to do with anything, the Stormlords were Renly's and that's the way it is. Lots of men belonging to the Lords of the Narrow Sea would have died, if they didn't switch sides the second Renly's vanguard advanced or the garrison of Storm's End sallied. Like I said, I have no problem with Stannis fans thinking Stannis was right to kill Renly because he was his enemy but when people justify it with the Stannis can do no wrong attitude saying House Baratheon would be better off or the realm would be better off without Renly gets on my tits. Stannis was the one that got in the way of everything, not Renly. Without Renly rebelling Stannis wouldn't have even gained the men he gained at Storm's End anyway. He'd be stuck with his sellswords and his own retainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor227 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 King Stannis was CORRECT so the claims were not "ridiculous" It cost Ned Stark HIS LIFE and Renly knew all thisl In Ned's infinite wisdom, he did not make Renly privy to the incest secret. As far as Renly knows for sure, Ned tried to seize power after refusing his offer to strike in the night with a reasonable chance of success due to some insane notion of honor during Robert's final hours, and then Joffrey hacked his head off, because Renly knows Joffrey is an insane little shit who would do that kind of thing just to look tough. No one outside the throne room knew that Stannis was Ned's intended recipient for the crown, and outside of Cersei, no one inside the throne room knew what justification he was using for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 No, Robert was King and Lord of Storm's End. He invested it in Renly because he had the authority to do so as king and the lord of Storm's End. Where does it say that the king can't hold other titles and lands. He still made Stannis a second son one of the most powerful lords in the realm, if he gave Stannis Storm's End he'd probably complain about not getting Dragonstone after capturing it and being Robert's heir. Either way what has this got to do with anything, the Stormlords were Renly's and that's the way it is. Lots of men belonging to the Lords of the Narrow Sea would have died, if they didn't switch sides the second Renly's vanguard advanced or the garrison of Storm's End sallied. Like I said, I have no problem with Stannis fans thinking Stannis was right to kill Renly because he was his enemy but when people justify it with the Stannis can do no wrong attitude saying House Baratheon would be better off or the realm would be better off without Renly gets on my tits. Stannis was the one that got in the way of everything, not Renly. Without Renly rebelling Stannis wouldn't have even gained the men he gained at Storm's End anyway. He'd be stuck with his sellswords and his own retainers. I agree with most of this but stannis was no were near one of the most powerful lords in the realm he's outside the top 20 easily. Getting Dragonstone was nice since Robert could have kept it storms end and kl but it didn't stannis much more powerful than he already was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor the Articulate Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Everyone already knew, or at least, suspected Renly was gay. I doubt the peasants would have revolted if it were officially confirmed. And don't buy into Stannis' self pity. Robert gave him a seat on his council, and made him Master of Ships, as well as Lord of Dragonstone, a title traditionally bestowed upon the Crown Prince. Stannis was never overlooked, or undervalued. That he was not given everything he desired is his own doing - you don't go around insulting people, and then expect them to work with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I agree with most of this but stannis was no were near one of the most powerful lords in the realm he's outside the top 20 easily. Getting Dragonstone was nice since Robert could have kept it storms end and kl but it didn't stannis much more powerful than he already was. He's the master of ships and the overlord of several significant houses. Stannis had no power, he was a second son. Dragonstone is a powerful lordship in the feudal chain, he has no overlord but the king. Even being in the top 50 from being a a second son and standing to inherit nothing is a huge rise in power. Any lord that can personally raise 5000 retainers, levies and sellswords is a very powerful and influential lord. Not near the power of the regional overlords or holders of cities like the Manderlys and Hightowers but still up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 King Stannis was CORRECT so the claims were not "ridiculous" It cost Ned Stark HIS LIFE and Renly knew all thislI'm pretty sure that STANNIS would have even less patience with PEOPLE who feel the need to SHOUT in ALL CAPS all the time LIKE THIS than I do. He certainly wouldn't argue that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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