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When Torrhen Stark "bent the knee", did he doom the Targaryans?


Lady Barbrey

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This theory is based very much on the World of Ice and Fire section on House Dustin and the Barrow King of the First Men.  We are told that the Barrow Kings were the first Kings of the First Men in the North (and Yandel even seems to approve, saying there are proofs of this and the Dustins do appear to be related).  We are told that the Barrow King put a curse on anybody who tried to be king after him (sorry this is not the exact or correct wording), that their life force and vigor would dwindle away to nothing.  We are told that the Barrow Kings fought the Starks for 200 years and at last the Barrow Kings knelt to the Starks.

 

If the Curse of the Barrow King is real, it did not have to mean an actual person.  It could have meant that the bloodline of any house or family with the temerity to take on the name King of the First Men in the North, or just claim sovereignty over them, would have their life force, health and vigor be cursed to dwindle away to nothing.  The bloodline would die out.  

 

The Stark Kings fought the Barrow Kings and won.  We might have seen if that curse was real then, except that the Stark King married the Barrow King's daughter.  The Starks through the ages from then on gained immunity to the curse because the Barrow King's blood ran through their veins (thanks to OberynBlackfyre for pointing out this possibility). And the Starks have become the some-times challenged but ever-victorious kings of winter ever since.

 

So on the face of it there is no way to test this theory about bloodline not a person, or if there ever was a working curse at all, except ...

 

When the Targaryans arrived in Westeros, they seemed healthy as did their magnificent dragons, whose life-force they seemed magically connected to. But from the time they arrived, over the next few hundred years, the dragons got smaller, spindly, weak.  The last one was only a few feet long (can[t remember how many).  The Targaryans themselves had all those still births of monstrous babies, which I had dismissed as incest, but really, the Valyrians had practiced incest for so many years, they would have died out if this was the norm.  The dwindling dragons, stillbirths and monstrous births, then, could possibly be tied in to them being in Westeros.

 

But what in Westeros was doing it?  The air? Sinister maesters at the Citadel?

 

I'm going to suggest that the Targaryans were doomed from the moment Torrhen Stark, King of the North, bent his knee and relinquished his sovereignty to Aegon the Conqueror.  The Barrow King curse flipped on, and Torrhen, hopefully, knew quite well the Starks would have the last laugh.

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This theory is based very much on the World of Ice and Fire section on House Dustin and the Barrow King of the First Men.  We are told that the Barrow Kings were the first Kings of the First Men in the North (and Yandel even seems to approve, saying there are proofs of this and the Dustins do appear to be related).  We are told that the Barrow King put a curse on anybody who tried to be king after him (sorry this is not the exact or correct wording), that their life force and vigor would dwindle away to nothing.  We are told that the Barrow Kings fought the Starks for 200 years and at last the Barrow Kings knelt to the Starks.

 

If the Curse of the Barrow King is real, it did not have to mean an actual person.  It could have meant that the bloodline of any house or family with the temerity to take on the name King of the First Men in the North, or just claim sovereignty over them, would have their life force, health and vigor be cursed to dwindle away to nothing.  The bloodline would die out.  

 

The Stark Kings fought the Barrow Kings and won.  We might have seen if that curse was real then, except that the Stark King married the Barrow King's daughter.  The Starks through the ages from then on gained immunity to the curse because the Barrow King's blood ran through their veins (thanks to OberynBlackfyre for pointing out this possibility). And the Starks have become the some-times challenged but ever-victorious kings of winter ever since.

 

So on the face of it there is no way to test this theory about bloodline not a person, or if there ever was a working curse at all, except ...

 

When the Targaryans arrived in Westeros, they seemed healthy as did their magnificent dragons, whose life-force they seemed magically connected to. But from the time they arrived, over the next few hundred years, the dragons got smaller, spindly, weak.  The last one was only a few feet long (can[t remember how many).  The Targaryans themselves had all those still births of monstrous babies, which I had dismissed as incest, but really, the Valyrians had practiced incest for so many years, they would have died out if this was the norm.  The dwindling dragons, stillbirths and monstrous births, then, could possibly be tied in to them being in Westeros.

 

But what in Westeros was doing it?  The air? Sinister maesters at the Citadel?

 

I'm going to suggest that the Targaryans were doomed from the moment Torrhen Stark, King of the North, bent his knee and relinquished his sovereignty to Aegon the Conqueror.  The Barrow King curse flipped on, and Torrhen, hopefully, knew quite well the Starks would have the last laugh.

 

If this were true and R+L=J were more than a theory, what could it mean for Daenerys and her dragons?

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If this were true and R+L=J were more than a theory, what could it mean for Daenerys and her dragons?

It would mean that unless Daenerys could find some way to marry someone with that Barrow King lineage, her own lineage if she clams herself Queen of Westeros is doomed to extinction.  As are any dragons bonded to Targaryans.

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Well if R+L = J then it could explain how the Targayens hatched healthy dragons for the first time in centuries.

Wouldn't even need R+L=J.  Daenerys is not the Queen of Westeros.  The curse only claims her and her lineage if she becomes the Queen.  And that's why, I surmise, the dragons, tied to the Targs magically, were able to be reborn - they were no longer under the curse.

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Well if R+L = J then it could explain how the Targayens hatched healthy dragons for the first time in centuries.

Wouldn't even need R+L=J.  Daenerys is not the Queen of Westeros.  The curse ended when Aerys died, so can only claim her and her lineage if she becomes the Queen.  And that's why, I surmise, the dragons, tied to the Targs magically, were able to be reborn - they were no longer under the curse.

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Well if R+L = J then it could explain how the Targayens hatched healthy dragons for the first time in centuries.

Wouldn't even need R+L=J.  Daenerys is not the Queen of Westeros.  The curse ended when Aerys died, so can only claim her and her lineage if she becomes the Queen.  And that's why, I surmise, the dragons, tied to the Targs magically, were able to be reborn - they were no longer under the curse. Actually, wasn't Daenaerys born after Aerys's demise?  A strong, healthy, not insane or unbalanced in any way Targaryan?  Though I guess a few people would debate that. :)

 

And so Robert Baratheon becomes king, and his legitimate line dies out because they were never his in the first place.

 

And we know the Lannister line is going to die out because of Maggy the Frog's prophecy.

 

Cursed!  

 

One way to avoid it would be to let the North declare a separate kingdom.  That's where the Barrow King of the First Men ruled.

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Dragons were reborn because of magic. Rhaego's life, Drogo's life and Mirri's life for lives of Rhaegal, Drogon and Viserion.

Not saying that wasn't needed.  I'm saying it would likely have failed in Westeros if she was queen.  They might have tried something like that at Summerhall.

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Wouldn't even need R+L=J.  Daenerys is not the Queen of Westeros.  The curse ended when Aerys died, so can only claim her and her lineage if she becomes the Queen.  And that's why, I surmise, the dragons, tied to the Targs magically, were able to be reborn - they were no longer under the curse. Actually, wasn't Daenaerys born after Aerys's demise?  A strong, healthy, not insane or unbalanced in any way Targaryan?  Though I guess a few people would debate that. :)

 

And so Robert Baratheon becomes king, and his legitimate line dies out because they were never his in the first place.

 

And we know the Lannister line is going to die out because of Maggy the Frog's prophecy.

 

Cursed!  

 

One way to avoid it would be to let the North declare a separate kingdom.  That's where the Barrow King of the First Men ruled.

There are Lannisters all over the place.  How does Maggy's prophecy make us "know" the Lannister line will die out?  Cersei's children will all die I am sure, however, there are many other Lannisters alive and well throughout the realm.

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