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What if Robert challenged Rhaegar for Lyanna in a duel?


purple-eyes

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If rhaegar just asked for the hand of Lyanna and did not run off. I guess Robert will ask for a duel just like Littlefinger to Brandon.
Will mad king allow this? Will he imprison or kill Robert?
If it is allowed, I assume rhaegar will still be killed by Robert because Robert is a better fighter?

Any thoughts?
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If this were to happen, I imagine it would be like Oberyn's duel, to first blood due to their standings (Lord of Storm's End and Crown Prince.)  Though whether Robert would stop after first blood was drawn, his or Rhaegar's, that would be the question.

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If this were to happen, I imagine it would be like Oberyn's duel, to first blood due to their standings (Lord of Storm's End and Crown Prince.)  Though whether Robert would stop after first blood was drawn, his or Rhaegar's, that would be the question.


You are right. I doubt too. Maybe he will kill rhaegar anyway and then he will also be killed by the king.
Then lyanna can just marry somebody else, maybe oberyn?
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The problem with the duel would be that it's not so easy to draw first blood without doing some serious damage. I mean, a good smash to the arm would more likely break some bones than cut it...
So it wouldn't necessary mean that Robert wasn't too kill Rhaegar but it happens on accident.
And what's with the Robert hate? The river we see in the books is a sad and ill one, not the charismatic, outgoing, fun loving guy of his prime
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You have to remember that the Rebellion was an exceptional circumstance.
 
I don't believe that Robert would have challenged Rhaegar because that's just not what you do to your Crowned Prince and Heir Apparent of the Iron Throne.
 
The Rebellion was the culmination of the alleged kidnapping, the "trial by fire" incident, and a lot of egging-on by Robert's friends. It basically became the kingdom against the Targaryens (The Throne).
 
Otherwise, Rhaegar had every right to declare someone as his betrothed. Married or not. He's the Prince and his father is the King and Targaryens are allowed polygamy. Robert was nothing but a vassal at that point.
 
Rhaegar was an idiot for "kidpannping" Lyanna. All he had to do was say "Hey, I feel like another wife... I'll take Lyanna, ktnxbai.", and everyone would have had to agree. Except he ran away with or kidpannped Lyanna and started a chain-reaction* which ultimately led to many powerful people becoming angry enough to start a rebellion.
 
* Chain reaction included:
 - Brandon Stark demanding trial by battle
 - Robert believing that Lyanna was kidnapped and needed rescuing
 - Brandon and his father getting killed by Aerys
 - Ned entering the war
 - Jon Arryn entering the war


I agree that if Rhaegar asked openly and publicly for Lyanna instead of running off, there will not be a civil war.
Robert will be angry but if the king and Stark made enough compensation and gave enough pressure, he had to accept it. Stark will be fine if lyanna can become a queen.
But this can work only if Rhaegar was single. I do not think rhaegar can marry two wives although he is prince.
If this is a valid option to take lyanna as a second princess, why he needs to run off? If he can marry her, then he will do that in order to respect and honor her.
But He ran off and disappeared for a long time instead of marrying lyanna openly, which means he could not marry Lyanna lawfully.
Rhaegar did not want to go through the trouble to try to marry a second wife, He just wanted to have a child as soon as he can, this is the reason why he ran off.
He may love Lyanna, but love is not enough for him to run off with her unless he decided to disappear forever.
Apparently he did not want to disappear forever.
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Again, rhaegar is not an idiot. He wanted to have the third head as soon as he can. He knew he can not marry Lyanna lawfully, so he decided to hide her somewhere and make sure she got pregnant and gave birth to a baby properly. If he just met her secretly and lyanna is still living with her family, lyanna's family will notice it pretty quickly and the baby will be lost or in danger.
His plan was to hide and get the baby, then after that the baby will be under his protection and nobody can hurt him. Then he can try to comfort or silent stark and Robert. At least he got the baby already.
The only thing he forgot is that Brandon and his dad are too hotheaded and crazy. Otherwise his plan will work.
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You are right. I doubt too. Maybe he will kill rhaegar anyway and then he will also be killed by the king.
Then lyanna can just marry somebody else, maybe oberyn?

I know Rickard wants southern marriage alliances, but Oberyn may be a little too southern. The Martells seem to be constantly getting into scraps with their neighbors, so you risk alienating the Baratheons, Tyrells, Lannisters, and various smaller houses, all for an ally who's really too far away to do much good.

But if Rickard did set it up, I can't figure out how well it would go. Sure, once Lyanna mentions that her father never let her carry a sword, and Oberyn says, "Well, then we'll have to have you carry a spear, because I wouldn't want to offend your father", that'll be a good start. But, given how bothered Lyanna was by Robert's promiscuity, could Oberyn talk her around to the Dornish lifestyle? Because he's certainly not going to give it up.

Oberyn: Now that we're betrothed, I'd like to introduce you to my paramour.
Lyanna: Paramour? You plan to keep sleeping with her the whole time we're married?
Oberyn: The whole time? Don't be silly, I've only known her two weeks, and I can't imagine she'll stick around 50 years.
Lyanna: You're just as bad as Robert, with his conquests in every city!
Oberyn: Heavens forbid. A man who sees women as conquests is missing all the fun.
Lyanna: What fun?
Oberyn: Well, the sex is fun. And the seduction. And talking to women like people instead of targets, much like we are now. But also the sex.
Lyanna: What's the point of getting married if you're just going to sleep with everyone else?
Oberyn: Politics. Why does anyone, especially anyone from Great Houses like us, ever get married?
Lyanna: Well, if you think you can sleep around, what's to stop me from doing it too?
Oberyn: I was hoping you'd ask. I've got three boys I'd love to introduce you to. I've only slept with one of them myself, so I can't vouch for the other two personally, but I've heard good stories.
Lyanna: What? You're OK with that? I wasn't expecting that. I'm not sure it's what I want, but I was kind of hoping that would start an argument.
Oberyn: Well, so was I, but that's only because you're sexy when you're yelling at me.
Lyanna: What? How dare you!
Oberyn: Like that.
Lyanna: Just wait until I tell my brother about you...
Oberyn: Brandon? He's cute, I guess, but I still like you better.

At this point, to spite her father for betrothing her to this infuriating man, does Lyanna (1) kick Oberyn in the nuts, refuses to ever see him again, and demand Rickard find her someone better, or (2) sleep with Oberyn before their wedding and start dressing like a Dornishwoman and talking in a Dornish accent to annoy everyone in Winterfell?
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If there is a duel between the Lord of the Stormlands and the heir to the Iron Throne..... That is a not an insignificant political confrontation even without the context of a Mad King and a possible rebellion. Rhaegar would look he is a royal prince that would take what he wanted from the nobility while Robert would look like he is indirectly challenging the crown. If you did manage to avoid a rebellion in the short term this would still likely influence factionalism. The old nobles that didn't get on with Rhaegar might look to Robert to "defend" their rights, while a royalist faction would likely speak the Baratheons. Heirs to the throne or the kings are not typically challenged during the high middle ages, and to do so is a really big break of the unsaid rules of middle age customs.

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Again, rhaegar is not an idiot. He wanted to have the third head as soon as he can. He knew he can not marry Lyanna lawfully, so he decided to hide her somewhere and make sure she got pregnant and gave birth to a baby properly. If he just met her secretly and lyanna is still living with her family, lyanna's family will notice it pretty quickly and the baby will be lost or in danger.
His plan was to hide and get the baby, then after that the baby will be under his protection and nobody can hurt him. Then he can try to comfort or silent stark and Robert. At least he got the baby already.
The only thing he forgot is that Brandon and his dad are too hotheaded and crazy. Otherwise his plan will work.


So all he did was ignore the two people must likely to overreact to the situation, sounds smart
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I know Rickard wants southern marriage alliances, but Oberyn may be a little too southern. The Martells seem to be constantly getting into scraps with their neighbors, so you risk alienating the Baratheons, Tyrells, Lannisters, and various smaller houses, all for an ally who's really too far away to do much good.But if Rickard did set it up, I can't figure out how well it would go. Sure, once Lyanna mentions that her father never let her carry a sword, and Oberyn says, "Well, then we'll have to have you carry a spear, because I wouldn't want to offend your father", that'll be a good start. But, given how bothered Lyanna was by Robert's promiscuity, could Oberyn talk her around to the Dornish lifestyle? Because he's certainly not going to give it up.Oberyn: Now that we're betrothed, I'd like to introduce you to my paramour.Lyanna: Paramour? You plan to keep sleeping with her the whole time we're married?Oberyn: The whole time? Don't be silly, I've only known her two weeks, and I can't imagine she'll stick around 50 years.Lyanna: You're just as bad as Robert, with his conquests in every city!Oberyn: Heavens forbid. A man who sees women as conquests is missing all the fun.Lyanna: What fun?Oberyn: Well, the sex is fun. And the seduction. And talking to women like people instead of targets, much like we are now. But also the sex.Lyanna: What's the point of getting married if you're just going to sleep with everyone else?Oberyn: Politics. Why does anyone, especially anyone from Great Houses like us, ever get married?Lyanna: Well, if you think you can sleep around, what's to stop me from doing it too?Oberyn: I was hoping you'd ask. I've got three boys I'd love to introduce you to. I've only slept with one of them myself, so I can't vouch for the other two personally, but I've heard good stories.Lyanna: What? You're OK with that? I wasn't expecting that. I'm not sure it's what I want, but I was kind of hoping that would start an argument.Oberyn: Well, so was I, but that's only because you're sexy when you're yelling at me.Lyanna: What? How dare you!Oberyn: Like that.Lyanna: Just wait until I tell my brother about you...Oberyn: Brandon? He's cute, I guess, but I still like you better.At this point, to spite her father for betrothing her to this infuriating man, does Lyanna (1) kick Oberyn in the nuts, refuses to ever see him again, and demand Rickard find her someone better, or (2) sleep with Oberyn before their wedding and start dressing like a Dornishwoman and talking in a Dornish accent to annoy everyone in Winterfell?


So funny! Actually I just said red viper because I can not think about other high born candidate for lyanna if Robb died. But I somehow feel that lyanna and red viper will make a nice couple. You know, wolf and snake, ice and sun, something like this.
But you made my day.
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So all he did was ignore the two people must likely to overreact to the situation, sounds smart


He indeed underestimate this and of course was not smart on this. but he knew the only way to get a baby safely is to run off and hide lyanna for one year. I just wanted to say that he chose to run off for fulfilling his purpose and ultimate duty, not for passion or sex.
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If this were to happen, I imagine it would be like Oberyn's duel, to first blood due to their standings (Lord of Storm's End and Crown Prince.)  Though whether Robert would stop after first blood was drawn, his or Rhaegar's, that would be the question.

Yeah, drawing first blood with a glancing strike from a warhammer is a something of a challenge.

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He indeed underestimate this and of course was not smart on this. but he knew the only way to get a baby safely is to run off and hide lyanna for one year. I just wanted to say that he chose to run off for fulfilling his purpose and ultimate duty, not for passion or sex.


Im sorry my people but it was my duty to fuck thst 14 year old.
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Im sorry my people but it was my duty to fuck thst 14 year old.


This is exactly what our beloved silver prince thought. Even lyanna had to become some sort of lovely tool for his prophecy. He thought this is his duty to give birth a savior or something like that.
Unfortunately he did not foresee his failure with Robert.
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So funny! Actually I just said red viper because I can not think about other high born candidate for lyanna if Robb died.

The obvious choice is to go for the same alliance and marry Lyanna to Stannis, just as they married Ned in place of Brandon to Cat.

If that isn't possible for some reason, who else is worth allying with? The other Great Houses are the obvious place to look. They've already got Tully and Arryn alliances. The Lannisters, since Jaime joined the KG, the only real option is marrying Gerion, and I'm not sure Tywin would treat that marriage as an alliance obligation. Quellon Greyjoy was seeking prestigious mainland wives for his sons, but Balon's already married, and the Isles don't seem important enough to marry your only daughter to their second son. So, that leaves the southern houses. At least the Tyrells or Hightowers are more navally-focused and less likely to drag you into a dispute than the Martells. Willas Tyrell may be 12-13 (although he also may be a lot younger), and Baelor Hightower may still be unmarried, so they're both possibilities.

Another possibility, if you can't get the Lannisters, Baratheons, or Targaryens, is to marry one of their most important bannermen. I don't think we know whether, say, the Leffords, Estermonts, or Velaryons have an unmarried heir of age, but it seems plausible one of them, or another house of similar prestige, would.

Or Rickard could look farther afield. A powerful Braavosi or Pentoshi merchant family might make as useful an ally to the North as one of the southern realms of Westeros, and if a wife from the Free Cities was good enough for Rhaegar (that's why Robert's parents were off in Essos, right?), why not a husband for Lyanna?

If worst comes to worst, Rickard could compromise his ambitions and marry Lyanna to one of his own more important vassals, as it seems most Starks usually do. Lyanna would probably be happy as a Karstark or an Umber.

So, there seem to be lots of other choices besides Oberyn. But I agree, they might make a good match.
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So funny! Actually I just said red viper because I can not think about other high born candidate for lyanna if Robb died. But I somehow feel that lyanna and red viper will make a nice couple. You know, wolf and snake, ice and sun, something like this.
But you made my day.

Well there would be Jon Arryn, who is unmarried and without sons. Stannis of course, as the new stormlord younger brother from Robert. Two houses Richard wants to have alliances with. One run wouldn't be really an option. The second son to an piece of land, as much or even more wasteland as his own?
And that Rhaegar is not an idiot? I beg to disagree. We hadn't seen even one situation where I thought, well that was pretty clever, I'm impressed. With him it was more like: serious dude? Do what if his actions let you think that he wasn't an idiot? Because he read a lot? That makes him educated not intelligent. Big different.
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* Chain reaction included:

 - Brandon Stark demanding trial by battle

 - Robert believing that Lyanna was kidnapped and needed rescuing

 - Brandon and his father getting killed by Aerys

 - Ned entering the war

 - Jon Arryn entering the war

 

The last two points need to be reversed.

 

Arryn is the one who started the Rebellion, not Ned, not Robert.

 

Also, Rhaegar/Aerys don't need to accept the challenge, or as BBE above pointed out, they could have introduced him to House Targaryen's champion, just like they did Brandon.

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Well, that's easy. Just ask Brandon Stark how that worked out for him.

Brandon challenged mad King, this is why he was killed.

If Rhaegar were there, since he is called a noble and nice guy, he should accept this duel since this is the right of Robert.   

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