R+L=J theory on the show

[winterfellbeyondthewall]

In the House of Undying we could have at least seen Rhaegar, TV is a visual medium and an audience needs to see characters to feel them as this is not a book with internal thoughts. This should have been shown if R+L was later to be revealed. G of T is not Columbo, there is absolutely no need to cover up every single possible clue so no one could ever guess. It is quite the opposite. The skill is to drop a few clues here and there so to the average viewer when the big reveal comes it is surprising but believable and thus impactful.
 
So unless we have big and clumsy flashback scenes at the start of 6 which sadly we will have to now, then Jon suddenly being a Targaryen will seem forced and only for shock value, just like Sansa's rape is to book readers.

I think it comes down to how the show will depict the flashbacks. I'd rather have a proper cast of Rhaegar and therefore having to wait longer than getting a brief scene of him in THOU where none of the show watchers paid attention anyways

[Selena]

He may be one of your favourite characters, but you obviously don't know the character well if you can't read anything from his reaction to what Sansa said. The entire scene is contrived to be a R+L=J hint.

 

I would bet every last penny I own that LF knows or at least strongly suspects that Jon is Rhaegar's son and that Lyanna wasn't raped.

 

oh yes, after that scene I think he knows too..

 

now whether he knows and doesnt care or knows and just hasnt shown his hand yet is what we have to wait and see

 

i can totally see at some point Varys using Dany as the Targ heir and LF using Jon ..kinda symbolic of the war the those two have going

[Ser Friendzoned]

 

oh yes, after that scene I think he knows too..

 

now whether he knows and doesnt care or knows and just hasnt shown his hand yet is what we have to wait and see

 

i can totally see at some point Varys using Dany as the Targ heir and LF using Jon ..kinda symbolic of the war the those two have going

 

That would be very interesting...

 

Jon VS Dany

 

Who would win? If Jon can rally Westeros, that is, could he defeat Dany?

[Selena]

who would win depends on when (if) that showdown takes place. 

 

if it takes place soon (post Jon resurection/Dany finally getting her butt to Westeros) Jon I think might have the edge.

If it is later rather sooner and Dany has full grown Drogon I think Dany wins because..well..dragon

if both of them have a dragon and both have an army loyal to them..well  that would be anyone's game

 

 

 

just for fun I am rewatching the show from start to catch R+l=J clues..doesnt take long.. less then 10 minutes into S1/E1 we have jon saying "I am not a Stark"..

 

just want to ruffle that perfect hair and say "aww You DO know something!" lol 

[winterfellbeyondthewall]

 

just for fun I am rewatching the show from start to catch R+l=J clues..doesnt take long.. less then 10 minutes into S1/E1 we have jon saying "I am not a Stark"..

 

just want to ruffle that perfect hair and say "aww You DO know something!" lol 

love this comment  :cool4:  but you're right. RLJ clues were planted everywhere.

[Lord Friendzone]

He may be one of your favourite characters, but you obviously don't know the character well if you can't read anything from his reaction to what Sansa said. The entire scene is contrived to be a R+L=J hint.

 

I would bet every last penny I own that LF knows or at least strongly suspects that Jon is Rhaegar's son and that Lyanna wasn't raped.

 

No and yes. LF knows or at least strongly suspects about true nature of their relationship. Lyanna wasn't raped, but I don't think for one second that he knows the whole truth about Jon.

[TRLR]

 

Yes exactly, the average viewer can't remember who exactly Gendry was but this blue Rose they will remember instantly. Haha. You are talking about book and hardcore show watchers. I am not, and nor are HBO or DD, they are thinking of the average viewer when they write.
 

You missed my point. D&D is known to spoil their storyline on their Behind the Episode thingie. People won't notice it but if the reveal happens, the watcher can go back and rewatch the scenes and they'll find the clues there. 

[TRLR]

 

No, they would have an idea of who he was because of Robert's great line, In my dreams I kill him every night.
 

It is good to see show watchers get defended here, as the show takes so much crap nowadays, but I am talking of the average viewer who enjoys the show but is not watching that attentively with checks to their iphone etc while the episodes are showing. As I said before if you did a poll of a hundred viewers who have never watched an episode twice, at least one third would not remember who exactly Renly was and more than half who Gendry was/is.

Rhaegar, yes. But the prophecy he talked about in the vision? That would take exposition and putting an exposition on that scene would be tedious. In the books, we get to read Dany's thoughts but viewers don't get that on the show. As for Renly and Gendry, it wouldn't surprise me if people don't remember them. They don't have that much screen time. The curious thing is, most show watchers remember that Jon burnt his hand in season one. They remember when Dany said, "Fire cannot kill a dragon" which leads everyone to assume Targs are immune to fire. They remembered "the seed is strong" but when it comes to other characters they don't. My guess is these details are connected to the "main characters" of the show therefore viewers retain it. I wouldn't be surprise if show watchers will be able to pick up on the R+L=J clues on the show simply because they care about the character and they want to know more about them. 

[Spilt Pea Soup]

You missed my point. D&D is known to spoil their storyline on their Behind the Episode thingie. People won't notice it but if the reveal happens, the watcher can go back and rewatch the scenes and they'll find the clues there. 

 

Was there a specific instance where they spoiled this storyline?  I wouldn't be surprised to learn that combing through all the extra material, one could find a smoking gun, but I haven't heard it yet.

[Jon The Bastard]

I think the show has avoided bringing up the "Promise Me Ned" so D & D can have their "Luke, I Am Your Father" moment for shock value and dramatic purpose...

[A Ghost of Someone]

I think the show has avoided bringing up the "Promise Me Ned" so D & D can have their "Luke, I Am Your Father" moment for shock value and dramatic purpose...

Next year we may get it.

[Selena]

I think the show will use Bran all season to build up to the reveal of R+L=J. no matter what his visons are in WoW (unless it will be the same in book) the show will use Bran to keep Jon and his story on screen and prepared for the"OMG SHOCK" of Jon is a Targ and JONS ALIVE!!

 

 

not that it WILL be a big shock to most fans.. but enough "HEELL YEAHS I KNEW IT!!!" can break the internets as easy as "O M G!!! WUT!!" posts lol

[Ser Friendzoned]

I wonder how they'll reveal it.

 

But what...

 

what if R+L=J is actually a hoax, and GRRM was screwing with us the whole time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THQBEUi6DoY

[~DarkHorse~]

I think the show will use Bran all season to build up to the reveal of R+L=J. no matter what his visons are in WoW (unless it will be the same in book) the show will use Bran to keep Jon and his story on screen and prepared for the"OMG SHOCK" of Jon is a Targ and JONS ALIVE!!

 

 

not that it WILL be a big shock to most fans.. but enough "HEELL YEAHS I KNEW IT!!!" can break the internets as easy as "O M G!!! WUT!!" posts lol

  :agree: I wouldn't be surprised if the reveal happens next season via Bran but we have to wait another season for Jon to find out.

[mrs snow]

They drilled R+L=J into our heads in 504. There were 3 different scenes addressing the characters involved in that episode. I'm not sure exactly what order they were in, but there was Selyse talking to Stannis about Jon and she stated he was the son of a whore basically and Stannis said he didn't buy it cause that wasn't Ned Stark's way. Then almost immediately after in the episode there was the crypt scene that everyone is discussing here where they focused on Lyanna. And then there was the scene with Dany and Barristan talking about about how good of a guy Rhaegar was which completely dispels the earlier thought that he raped and murdered Lyanna. There would be no point of really putting these scenes in the episode talking about these characters not in the show unless it had some foreshadowing meaning. These clues were placed so perfectly for a reason and brought up so many times that my show watching friend who didn't know about R+L=J got incredibly close to piecing it together during the episode. I eventually told them about it and they said "Oh that makes sense, I think I believe that"

and the 'a Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing ' scene where jon walks in....total foreshadowing

[Northbound3.0]

I wonder how they'll reveal it.
 
But what...
 
what if R+L=J is actually a hoax, and GRRM was screwing with us the whole time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THQBEUi6DoY

If that was the case; Martin would be the biggest hack job writer, in the history of High Fantasy.

[Visceral Varys]

and the 'a Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing ' scene where jon walks in....total foreshadowing

Yep, that was funny. Might as well said "Did someone just call me?" Lol.

Plus, how many times and in how many interviews was it mentioned that they got the job because they ansered "the" question right?

[VenezuelanLord]

who would win depends on when (if) that showdown takes place. 
 
if it takes place soon (post Jon resurection/Dany finally getting her butt to Westeros) Jon I think might have the edge.
If it is later rather sooner and Dany has full grown Drogon I think Dany wins because..well..dragon
if both of them have a dragon and both have an army loyal to them..well  that would be anyone's game

Really? I don't think anyone is going to have the edge.. Dany will be in a place she doesn't know and with people she will not trust, only tyrion and jorah as their counselors in weterosi matter, and Jon, even if Jon manages to rally westeros the only army that retains its own strength is the vale's and this is point to Jon due to Sansa, but I don't really see him working with LF, Ned's last mistake was trusting the man,and we know Ned an jon gave basically the same moral compass, I think that if they do clash it would be a tight result, Dany has the dragons yes, but Jon has Ghost and a furry ally south of the neck, and Bran's involvement will tip the balance too, soo we will have to wait and see

[Wanderful]

In the House of Undying we could have at least seen Rhaegar, TV is a visual medium and an audience needs to see characters to feel them as this is not a book with internal thoughts. This should have been shown if R+L was later to be revealed. G of T is not Columbo, there is absolutely no need to cover up every single possible clue so no one could ever guess. It is quite the opposite. The skill is to drop a few clues here and there so to the average viewer when the big reveal comes it is surprising but believable and thus impactful.

 

So unless we have big and clumsy flashback scenes at the start of 6 which sadly we will have to now, then Jon suddenly being a Targaryen will seem forced and only for shock value, just like Sansa's rape is to book readers.

 

A few seasons/years ago, the show runners had no idea how long the series would run. There was NO way they could cast Rhaegar in that dream sequence. Now that D&D have expressed desire to wrap it up in seven seasons, we saw quite a bit of RLJ theory in season 5. Up until this season, they have been subtle with their hints, enough to make the average viewer suspicious. Now they seem more intent on dropping real clues. Stanni's comment to his wife, to me, was as big as a clue can get Combine this with that others pointed out (the talk of Lyanna, Rhaeger relationship) plus the S6 flashback rumors, its quite clear the show is setting up the big reveal for the final season (season 7...or 8?).  

[Darren Long]

 

That would be very interesting...

 

Jon VS Dany

 

Who would win? If Jon can rally Westeros, that is, could he defeat Dany?

 

 

From what we have seen of the Unsullied being killed by guys in robes with knives, I am guessing certainly the Armies of the Seven Kingdoms would destroy them.    If She got some Dothraki, then she might have more of a chance, but Dothraki do not use bows, so I think they too, would suffer against men in armor.  Mongols did well against men in armor but they used bows a lot.    The dragons would help a lot, but Drogon was wounded bad in the arena, the Seven Kingdoms probably have ballistas too, which would hurt worse than spears.  Jon is also the better commander, Dani is not a military expert and struggles to rule, let alone command an Army.   She does have one big thing helping her, she is alive and Jon's fate is in limbo right now.