Kyll.Ing. Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Hello, speculators! Based on another thread in the TWoW subforum, I figured it would be a good idea to create this here. Now, as we all know, the books leave the readers with many questions unanswered. Many questions. We're fond to discuss them on these boards, trying to find answers to the numerous mysteries this series present to us. This is not a thread for such discussion. Rather, I want to try to count the mysteries. Instead of asking "where is character X?", I want a thread for "how many characters are missing, like for instance character X?". We already have dozens upon dozens of threads discussing the whereabouts of character X. And further dozens on character Y. But I've yet to find a thread summarizing how many characters are missing. Or listing all the little events/objects which might be of relevance to the plot. Yes, there is an excellent thread compiling theories. But I want to see a neat list of the little uncertainities brought up over the series. And for that, I'm going to need your help. I've tried to summarize the mysteries in various categories and sub-categories. The listing isn't perfect, it might not even be pretty, but I think it's a decent start. Obviously, it isn't complete either. I bet any reader of this thread will find one of their favourite questions missing from the list. If so, don't hesitate to tell me here. Now, not all questions are notable enough to warrant a listing. Questions such as "Where is Leslyn Haigh at the moment?" or "Does the door at the Lord's Chamber at The Sandstone open inwards or outwards?" aren't exactly relevant to the story. If possible, I'd like to restrict it to questions an unsavvy reader might find in the first read-through. That means that the question is either brought up on-page, implied to be of relevance, and/or have a non-satisfactory explanation. Certain prominent points of fan discussion might also be addressed. Please don't put the questions in the form of speculation either. I don't think we should involve mysteries from The World of Ice and Fire, as that book is rife with unsolved mysteries as part of its writing style (to imply that the world is much grander or more complex than what can be addressed in the book). Also, keep the questions short and not overly specific. "Did Sandor Clegane really survive his wounds, become a monk at the Quiet Isle and dig graves during Brienne's visit?" would be narrowing it down too much. "Did Sandor Clegane really die?" is enough. "Who is the gravedigging novice at the Quiet Isle?" could be another question, although I didn't include it in the list (should I?) because the possible explanation is pretty widely known to anybody cunning enough to question Sandor's demise in the first place. Likewise, "Will Sandor Clegane return from the Quiet Isle to fight UnGregor" is speculation, not a theory. Anyway, onto the list, shall we? 0. Index People and identities Plots and machinations Prophecies and legends Events in the far past (before the onset of A Game of Thrones) Cliffhangers Locations and Geography Chekov's Guns List of major plot lines 1. People and identities 1.1 People whose whereabouts are unknown Where is Tyrek Lannister? What happened to Ned's bones? Where is Benjen Stark? Where is the Blackfish? What happened to Weasel? What happened to Syrio Forel? Where is Stonesnake? What has Howland Reed been doing all this time? Are Shagga and the Stone Crows still in the Kingswood? 1.2 (presented) Characters of unknown identity Who is Lem Lemoncloak? Who is the hooded man in Winterfell? Who is Robert Strong? Who is the High Sparrow? Who is (was?) Coldhands? Is Aegon legit? Who is the Dusky Woman? Who is Quaithe? Who is the Ghost of High Heart? (possibly to be resolved in D&E) Who is Septa Lemore? Who is the Sailor's Wife? Who is really the three-eyed crow from Bran's dreams? 1.3 Characters of unknown ancestry Who is Darkstar's parents? Who are Jon Snow's parents? 1.4 Characters whose present is well known, but whose background is unclear What is Melisandre's story? What is the deal with Hodor? What happened to Patchface? 1.5 Characters close to death, one way or another (note: incidents of substantial doubt only, brought up in-universe of heavily implied) 1.5.1 Characters thought to be dead or dying, but which might be alive (and in various stages of wellbeing) Is Ser Loras actually dying? Is Sandor Clegane still alive? Is Gregor Clegane somehow still alive? Is Quentyn Martell still alive? Did Septon Chayle, an adept swimmer, survive being thrown into the well of Winterfell? Did Mance's spearwives all die? What happened to Marillion? Did he really jump from the Sky Cells, as claimed by Littlefinger? Is Stannis Baratheon really dead, as claimed in the Pink Letter? (note: other deaths implied if the Pink Letter is true, will not be listed) Is Raynald Westerling actually dead? 1.5.2 Characters thought to be alive, but which might be dead or dying Is Robert "Sweetrobin" Arryn terminally ill? Is Jojen Reed dying? 2. Plots and machinations 2.1 Agendas of known characters What is Jaqen H'ghar up to? Who is Ser Shadrick loyal to? What is Littlefinger's end game? Does he have any at all? What is Varys'/Illyrio's endgame? What is Moqorro's/Benerro's agenda? What is Quaithe's agenda? What is Marwyn's agenda? What is Tom of Sevenstreams doing at Riverrun? What is Aeron "Damphair" up to? What plans do Euron "Crow's Eye" have? 2.2 Multi-person plots To what extent are the Northern lords cooperating? Is there a conspiracy at the Citadel? Who controls the Sons of the Harpy? Is there a Harpy at all? Who are the Faceless Men and what is their role in the remainder of the story? What plans do the Faceless Men have for Arya? How many people - apart from Theon and Littlefinger - know that Jeyne isn't Arya? 2.3 Plots of unknown origin/extent 2.3.1 Unknown plots Was Tywin Lannister poisoned? Is the story of Ser Loras' demise true? If not, who made it up and why? Does the Iron Bank have any grand plans for Westeros? 2.3.2. Known plots, unknown perpetrators Who poisoned Daenerys' locusts? Who sent the dagger to kill Bran? Who really killed Joffrey? Who was behind Mandon Moore's attack on Tyrion? Who ratted out Arianne? 3. Prophecies and legends 3.1 Prophecies - general Can prophecies be trusted to always come into fruition? Can prophecies have a truly mundane outcome? (for instance, Robert's doll being the "savage giant" Sansa slays) Is there reason to believe Azor Ahai/PtwP will come again, or that history will repeat itself with another Long Night? Index of prophecies By Quaithe By the Ghost of High Heart In the HotU By Patchface By Melisandre By the Toland Girl (TWOW) By "Maggy the Frog" Dreams Jojen Reed's greendreams and prophesies 3.2 Terms and allegories (words of uncertain meaning or prophecies not blatantly referring to a specific person) Who (or what) is the valonqar (and why the hell can't people seem to spell the word correctly?) Who (or what) is the perfumed seneschal? What (or who) is "the mummer's dragon?" What is the Song of Ice and Fire? What does "waking dragons from stone" mean? What (or who) is the "sphinx" (that is the riddle) that Maester Aemon speaks about before he dies? What are the "three treasons" Daenerys will know? Who/what is the "savage giant" Sansa slays? Who/what is the "girl in grey on a dying horse" seen by Melisandre? 3.3 Prophecies referring to specific people Who is "the younger, more beautiful queen"? (Maggy's prophecy to Cersei) Who is "the prince that was promised"? (prophecy mentioned by Rhaegar, among others) 3.4 Objects recurring in prophecies or legends Is there a Horn of Winter/Horn of Joramun? Where is it? What is Lightbringer? 3.5 Legends - general Why are the Others returning? What are the exact conditions required for hatching dragon eggs? Why is magic returning to the world? How is Valyrian steel made? 4. Events in the far past (before the onset of A Game of Trones) 4.1 Who were... Who were the Knight of the Laughing Tree? Who were the Night's King? Who were the King's Hand who had the tunnel between the Red Keep and Chattaya's brothel constructed? 4.2 Unexplained events What became of the Wildfire Plot? What caused the Doom of Valyria? Did the Faceless Men play a role? What happened during the destruction of Hardhome? What caused the fire at Summerhall? What happened at the Tower of Joy? How did Howland Reed save Ned's life? Why did Ashara Dayne throw herself into the sea? Did she at all? Was the Tourney at Harrenhal really supposed to be a place where Rhaegar plotted a coup? What were Rickard Stark's "Southron Ambitions?" Maester Aemon claims to have gone through three "tests". Two of them have been explained, but what was the first one? What were the last four visions Bran saw through the weirwood? 4.3 Fates of characters from before ASoIaF (note: not always likely to be revealed in this series, but listed here anyway for completion's sake) What was the fate of Nettles? What happened to Brandon the Shipwright? What happened to Gerion Lannister? What happened to Alys Rivers? What happened to Tysha? 4.4. Items/artifacts lost to history Where are the Valyrian swords Brightroar, Blackfyre and Dark Sister? 5. Cliffhangers (as per the most recent chapter) 5.1. Stuff that has happened Did Ser Hyle and Podrick survive the encounter with the Brotherhood without Banners? Who wrote the Pink Letter? Was Pate of Oldtown replaced by a Faceless Man? What are the "dead things in the water"? 5.2. Stuff that is happening Will Jon Snow survive the stabbing? Did Wun Wun survive the mutiny at the Wall? What is going on at Hardhome? 5.3. Stuff that will happen soon What is Stannis' plan for "The battle of ice"? Can wights traverse across water, or otherwise circumvent the Wall? 6. Locations and geography (NOTE: No "what lies beyond..." questions, as those places can summarily be dismissed as irrelevant to the story) Do Grendel's Tunnels actually cross the Wall? If so, where do they surface? Why does the Rhoyne seem to run backwards at Chroyane? What became of Valyria after the Doom? What's the deal with the Isle of Faces? Is there a tunnel out of the crypts of Winterfell? Is anything important hidden in the crypts of Winterfell? 7. Chekhov's Guns (recurring items/phrases which might be of importance) 7.1 Stuff brought up often, or implied to be of major importance (practically speaking: stuff a non-savvy reader would pick up during the first read) What will happen with Nymeria's pack? "Impregnable" Eyrie Where do whores go? What is up with the obsidian horn Jon found at the Fist, currently in Sam's possession? Why is Darkstar "the most dangerous man in Dorne"? What exactly makes a man "the Sword of the Morning"? Does the house with the red door (Dany's childhood home) have any significance? Is it even located in Braavos? What happened to Robb's will? Who is the heir of the North? 7.2 Less noticeable items/phrases/happenings What was that book Roose burned at Harrenhal? What is the deal with the hunting tapestries Littlefinger had sent over from King's Landing? Did the Hound really kiss Sansa? The Hound's helmet keeps appearing after his death. Does this signify anything for the future? Does Sansa still have the hairnet, and does it still contain poison? Will the (as of yet un-wighted) corpses kept in the Ice Cells play a significant role later? 8. List of plot threads/lines (note: no questions here, just listing off the things going on as of the end of ADWD) 8.1 In Westeros The Others invasion Castle Black and the mutiny Stannis Baratheon's siege of Winterfell: Davos Seaworth's search for Rickon Everything going on in King's Landing Areo/Darkstar/Obara plotline LSH/Jaime/Brienne Things going on at the Citadel in Oldtown Aeron/Euron Edmure Tully on the run 8.2 Across the narrow sea Daenerys' encounter with the Dothraki Arya's training with the Faceless Men The siege of Meereen Tyrion, Jorah and Penny at the Second Sons Victarion and the Dragon Horn Volantene slave revolt Feedback would be greatly appreciated. Also, any posts trying to answer all the questions would clearly be missing the purpose of this thread. We have tens of thousands of threads for that purpose. In here, speculation is a report-worthy offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Falione Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I like this. Not sure how this doesn't have a bunch of replies and views. Haaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 While the "Lemongate" issue may count as "less noticeable" or even illusory, the "house with the red door" is a pretty big Chekov's Gun on its own, regardless of Lemongate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Falione Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I always thought Sweetrobin was sickly because Lisa and Hoster used tansy to attempt an abortion for Lisa's child with Jon Arryn. I'm sure Hoster had no great love for Arryn. It is said their marriage was the price to pay for the swords they got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 9. LIttlefinger's plot armor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Chekov's Guns -- The Hound Helm of Terror, that refuses to die with Sandor, but keeps moving from Host to Host. Where's that going? -- The Sword of the Morning a/k/a Dawn a/k/a Arthur's Sword and/or its weilder. It just keeps being mentioned. It's even a constellation, so it can be mentioned some more, coupled with the song of the Night that Ended, where the Night's Watch wins the Battle for the Dawn. Surely all that is heading somewhere? -- The Stone Dragon that's going to wake up. It keeps being mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tower of Almond Joy Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I like this. Not sure how this doesn't have a bunch of replies and views. Haaha They are answering in the other thread the OP cited. Great job OP. Actually more than great. This is fantastic! Perhaps it could be pinned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyll.Ing. Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 - I think I'll put "Waking Dragons from stone" in 3.2 - prophecies of uncertain meaning (oh wow, there is some messed-up numbering in section 3 in general, better fix that too). - "The Sword of the Morning" goes as a Chekov's gun. Section 7.1. - The Hound's helmet... well, Chekov's gun too? 7.1 or 7.2? Also, if you could phrase "Lemongate" as a specifc question, and suggest which category it goes under, that'd be great. EDIT: Thinking it through, I think the thread needs a general rule against "what will happen to..." questions, as these can be applied to any object, person or location, anywhere, without prior addressing in the story. As such, I haven't added the Hound's Helmet yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First of the First Men Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Prophecies by Jojen (under 3.1) Where is Stonesnake? (1.1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyll.Ing. Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 ^Thanks for contributing! I added them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First of the First Men Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Oh, and this: Did the Hound kiss Sansa? File under 7.2 I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Also, if you could phrase "Lemongate" as a specifc question, and suggest which category it goes under, that'd be great. Sorry. My fault. Fannish shorthand is a recipe for confusion. I thought you already had "Lemongate" pretty much covered under the "less noticeable" of the Czechov's Guns. By "lemongate" I merely meant the idea that the lemon tree outside Dany's window is somehow significant, and that it might mean (for instance) that the house with the red door is not in Braavos. To this I merely wished to add that the house with the red door is itself a "Czechov's Gun", or could be considered one. It gets mentioned alot more than the lemon tree, and was thought of as a mystery long ago, long before people started wondering about whether lemon-trees could grow in Braavos. If it were up to me, I think I would keep it as a single entry, but under the *more* noticeable of the Czechov's Gun's, and mention any question as to its location ("lemongate") only as an afterthought: "The big house with the red door: Will Dany see it again and what will she find there? Is it even in Braavos?" Nice thread, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parizad Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I would like to add this. How does the wierwood gate near the night fort knows brothers of the night's watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unitron Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I always thought Sweetrobin was sickly because Lisa and Hoster used tansy to attempt an abortion for Lisa's child with Jon Arryn. I'm sure Hoster had no great love for Arryn. It is said their marriage was the price to pay for the swords they got. Lysa went to Littlefinger as he was recovering from his duel with Brandon Stark and gave him some Jeyne Westerling style comforting, and it was the pregnancy that resulted from that which her father ended, so that she would still be marriageable. I don't know if that did any damage which would interfere with future pregnancies or not, but apparently she did have trouble with them for some reason. She was *supposed* to give Arryn an heir to unite House Arryn and House Tully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 EDIT: Thinking it through, I think the thread needs a general rule against "what will happen to..." questions, as these can be applied to any object, person or location, anywhere, without prior addressing in the story. As such, I haven't added the Hound's Helmet yet. Yeah, it's a real problem. One could list a million irrelevant story details and ask "What's up with x?". But the problem with your solution is that it conflicts with the very idea (in this context) of a "Czechov's Gun" category. In this context, we call something a "Czechov's Gun" because it gets mentioned so prominently and/or repeatedly that we assume it probably has some kind of significance or is some kind of foreshadowing. So we say "X keeps being mentioned. It must be important. What's up with X?" I assume the purpose of the Czechov's Gun category is to allow you to include such things if they seem to you important enough. It's your list. Why tie your own hands? In an attempt to make the "Hound Helm" suggestion sound more interesting than "The Hound Helm: what's up with that?", I might phrase it as follows: "'The Hound' or his helm keeps being sighted or mentioned, even after Sandor's 'death'. Does this foreshadow Sandor's return? Or the arrival of a still-more dreadful incarnation of 'the Hound'?" But it's just an idea. If you just don't think it's important enough to include, I won't be offended at all. I realize it's not reasonable to expect you to include every single story detail that might possibly turn out to be a "Czechov's Gun". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyll.Ing. Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 I would like to add this. How does the wierwood gate near the night fort knows brothers of the night's watch Well... I'm a little hesitant to add this, since it basically asks "how does it work" in a universe where magic exists, and the gate is a clearly magical artifact (Clarke's third law nonwithstanding). However, I did add "what's up with the river at Chroyane", which basically is the same question. I'll either add your question or delete the one about Chroyane, since I feel they should be treated the same. EDIT: Yeah, ChillyPolly, I think I'm following your logic. As you put it, questions asking "what's up with..." or "what will happen to..." will easily be irrelevant, unless we know that something will happen. For instance, it would be appropriate to ask what Euron is planning, as we clearly see he has got some kind of plan, but I wouldn't want to list "Is Rollam Westerling planning anything?" because there are no clear indications that he does. The same can be said about the 'Guns; I'd try to keep the listings to objects we've seen repeatedly, or which have been pondered about on-page (Sam's obsidian horn would count as this, for instance, since Sam openly wonders what is the deal with it). The Hound Helm can be seen as a bit of Chekhov's Gun (Wikipedia agrees with this spelling), because it does appear quite a few times after his "death?". I think I will list it, but only asking an open question on whether it implies something for the future. Exactly what it implies is of secondary importance. But for the sake of keeping things tidy and consistent, we can't list every little thingamajig in the story. I mean, we don't know exactly what happened to Dareon's boots after Arya put them on the Kindly Man's table, but I don't think they warrant any further questions. If they do make a return later, it's fair to say it would be a surprise to every reader but the most hardcore ones. As such, we should keep a bar raised for listing objects and events. I might consider giving the axe to "Roose's book" as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unitron Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I would like to add this. How does the wierwood gate near the night fort knows brothers of the night's watch Magic Or a technology sufficiently advanced to be indistinguishable from same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parizad Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 It is mystery non the less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I'm not sure Edric Dayne's whereabouts should be there. Is not a "mystery" as with Tyrek or Benjen, who people is searching for. We just haven't been with a PoV that would tell us where he is. It's not hard to speculate where Edric is. Now Dondarrion is dead for good, he probably returned to Starfall, because he's the Lord. And please, don't include Lemongate... I have money for a FM right now U_U Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danelle Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 A few years ago there was a similar thread which listed all the mysteries,it was very useful. Anyway, I think that apart from the mysteries from the asoiaf books, unanswered questions from WOIAF and the novellas should be added. For example, whatever happened to Lady Rohane Webber. We know that she married Gerold Lannister, lived happily together, until she disappeared under mysterious circumstances following the birth of her son, Jason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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