Purity Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Gorging on grief at Summerhall. From this comment we can deduce that the GOHH was in Summerhall when the tragedy occurred and could, therefore, be the one to let us know what happened. Is there anyone else alive who would be able to testify for what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Knute Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I think if anyone it would be Hallyne, but that'd probably be through a second-hand telling as apparently he was only an acolyte during Aerys' reign. I think everyone else who survived is now dead besides GoHH. One has to consider the idea though that perhaps Bloodraven knows if he's able to commune with GoHH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsteve666 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Sorry for being an idiot but who is GOHH? I don't think Hallyne would have been there, I don't think they'd let just any acolyte in on that party. And I'm fairly certain anyone who survived was forced into silence to keep the truth on that disaster quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoren the rainbow cloak Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Sorry for being an idiot but who is GOHH? I don't think Hallyne would have been there, I don't think they'd let just any acolyte in on that party. And I'm fairly certain anyone who survived was forced into silence to keep the truth on that disaster quiet. GOHH = Ghost of the High Heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sword of the Evening Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 IMO Summerhall happened because of the Ghost of High Heart. She prophesied that the PTWP would come from the Targaryen line (as she was a close friend of Jenny of Oldstones who claimed she was one of the COTF). At Summerhall Rhaegar was born while several members of the royal family died in what seems like another failed attempt to recreate dragons. Even Barristan think she died at Summerhall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsteve666 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 GOHH = Ghost of the High Heart Duh! What an idiot I am. I was sitting here trying to work out of it was an acronym for the maester of the pyromancer's guild and comming up with nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purity Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 IMO Summerhall happened because of the Ghost of High Heart. She prophesied that the PTWP would come from the Targaryen line (as she was a close friend of Jenny of Oldstones who claimed she was one of the COTF). At Summerhall Rhaegar was born while several members of the royal family died in what seems like another failed attempt to recreate dragons. Even Barristan think she died at Summerhall The way Barristan talks about Summerhal is very strange to me. He talks about it as if he knows what happened there, even though he was nowhere near the area. Could Barristan know what happened? Could he have got a face-to-face testimony from a survivor? Who else survived? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 The way Barristan talks about Summerhal is very strange to me. He talks about it as if he knows what happened there, even though he was nowhere near the area. Could Barristan know what happened? Could he have got a face-to-face testimony from a survivor? Who else survived? lol, if I had to guess I would say; Howland Reed was there, survived it and now we must wait for him to tell us about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 The way Barristan talks about Summerhal is very strange to me. He talks about it as if he knows what happened there, even though he was nowhere near the area. Could Barristan know what happened? Could he have got a face-to-face testimony from a survivor? Who else survived? Aerys, Rhaella, Jaehaerys, Shaera, definitly. Jenny of Oldstones, perhaps, we don't know. The Ghost herself, possibly. Out of all of them, only the Ghost is still alive today. IMO Summerhall happened because of the Ghost of High Heart. She prophesied that the PTWP would come from the Targaryen line (as she was a close friend of Jenny of Oldstones who claimed she was one of the COTF). At Summerhall Rhaegar was born while several members of the royal family died in what seems like another failed attempt to recreate dragons. Even Barristan think she died at Summerhall Aegon V wanted to reform laws, but his high lords were protesting. He became convinced, towards the end of his reign, that, if he had dragons, those lords wouldn't dare oppose him. Hence eventually Summerhall, where an attempt was made to hatch seven dragon eggs. It is even possible that he dreamed about a dragon being born at Summerhall.. And in his believe that it would have to have been an actual dragon, he missed that the dragon born that day would be Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsteve666 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Would any members of the kings guard at the time have knowledge of events? After all if they are to protect the king and royal family there must have been some of them present? Perhaps the book listing all past members would hold secrets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sword of the Evening Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Would any members of the kings guard at the time have knowledge of events? After all if they are to protect the king and royal family there must have been some of them present? Perhaps the book listing all past members would hold secrets? Duncan the Tall of the Kingsguard perished there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maia Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Gerold Hightower may have been there,as he was the senior KG when Barristan joined. The old KG who died in his sleep to . Of the recently dead who might have been there - Tywin (if he had been a royal squire as well as a page, as seems likely) and Pycelle - whom I strongly suspect of sabotaging the effort and causing the catastrophe. All dead now,of course, which leaves us with GoHH and possibly Bloodraven,who could have watched via the weirnet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Slayer Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Does anyone know where (or about where) the text is regarding Duncan the Tall perishing there? Just curious as I was thinking about this the other day - the fate of Dunk - seeing as I've read the books more than once but just read the Dunk and Egg novellas a few months ago and haven't done any type of reread since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sword of the Evening Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Does anyone know where (or about where) the text is regarding Duncan the Tall perishing there? Just curious as I was thinking about this the other day - the fate of Dunk - seeing as I've read the books more than once but just read the Dunk and Egg novellas a few months ago and haven't done any type of reread since. [spoiler] The only place it is mentioned is in The World of Ice and Fire [/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sword of the Evening Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 [spoiler] It is mentioned in The World of Ice and Fire [/spoiler] I didn't realize which sub forum i was posting on... sorry lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 While Pycelle would be a good candidate for sabotaging the ritual, it would be very strange if Pycelle actually was trusted by Aegon V in all that. The man became Grand Maester mere months before Harrenhal, and Yandel tells us that Aegon V had spent years investigating dragonlore, collecting ancient books and scrolls trying to solve whatever puzzle he working at. For all we know Pycelle isn't exactly an expert on those matters, which makes it very unlikely Aegon V involved him in the whole project after he became Grand Maester - and subsequently it would be strange if Pycelle had been called upon to join the king and all those closest to him at Summerhall. Sure, it may be that Pycelle has some more intimate connections to the Targaryens leading to Aegon V trusting him but about that we don't know anything. I'm rather inclined to believe that Aegon's many enemies conspired with the Citadel to take this chance and put an end to him. If there was a betrayal it may have come from somebody Egg trusted implicitly, somebody we don't know and haven't even met yet. By the way, has anybody ever considered that the plan might have worked? That the seven eggs did indeed hatch, but that the wildfire grew out of control thereafter, either consuming the hatchlings in the process, or them being crushed when the palace collapsed. I find it strange to assume that Egg's calculations were wrong there. He must have had more knowledge on dragonlore than any Targaryen king since the Dance, and I'm not necessarily comfortable with dismissing his whole attempt as doomed from the start. If there was betrayal, there may have simply been an attempt to assassinate Aegon V (and perhaps all the assembled Targaryens) during the attempt (possibly after the dragons had hatched/while they were hatching, when the conspirators/traitors realized that Aegon V would get his dragons, after all), and while the attackers were fought off, some wildfire spilled and caused the inferno. It is quite clear that the wildfire was part of the ritual, and one assumes that the king didn't allow to administer it to the eggs by somebody he didn't trust. He may even have done that himself. The pyromancers would have had no innate reason to conspire with the Citadel against Aegon V, but perhaps an alchemist could have been bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 ^I believe Dunks character, and the lack of any recent relatives dying is evidence that his plan would not have worked. Would Egg sacrifice someone who was alive and burn them to death? If he did would Dunk have really been a part of it? I don't think so, and if he had no recently deceased relatives to burn then he had 0 of the ingredients we saw Dany use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 But then, dragon eggs did hatch without any blood sacrifices for centuries before the death of the dragons, so there is really no reason to believe that a blood sacrifice/blood magic spell is the only way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 With dragon eggs that were recently laid I would agree, but of the 7 eggs some had turned to stone and all would have been over 100 years old no? With the stone I would say a spell is definitely needed, if its just old I guess its possible it could hatch but seems unlikely to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 The problem is there seems to be no visible difference between petrified dragon eggs (Dany's eggs which seem to identical with those ancient eggs Aerys found on Dragonstone) and younger dragon eggs like the one Aegon IV gave Lord Butterwell (unless we go with that one being some ancient egg, too, which doesn't seem the case since Egg describes his the same way). For all we know all dragon eggs may look and feel the way Dany's do, and then there wouldn't be any real difference to them. There is one hint that praying over dragon eggs could work for a Targaryen since Rhaena Targaryen, Daemon's daughter by Laena, seems to have hatched one of the three eggs that way she took with her to the Vale. It seems that the dragon Morning hatched from one of those eggs. I'm pretty sure Egg would have known about the blood sacrifice approach but deliberately chose another way. It may be that this was the reason why he searched for this many manuscripts on dragonlore. After all, blood magic seems to have been very common in Valyria, so this whole thing wouldn't have been an idea that never crossed Egg's mind. The idea that he failed to remember his own hatching at Whitewalls and Daemon's prophecy about that also makes little sense - which would indicate that his dreams most likely could not easily have been interpreted as foretelling the birth of Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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