Snowhere fast Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 If Jon and Robb had been allowed to further develop their relationship in the story and go to war together, do you think they would have been as much as a successful team/duo as Ned and Robert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 If Jon and Robb had been allowed to further develop their relationship in the story and go to war together, do you think they would have been as much as a successful team/duo as Ned and Robert? I don't think that Jon would have added much given that Robb already had men like the Blackfish to advice him. In fact I see no difference whatsoever with Jon riding with Robb, save an extra corpse at the Red Wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Ned and Robert are considered SUCCESSFUL duo? What makes you say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Goat Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Ned and Robert are considered SUCCESSFUL duo? What makes you say that? They sure were during Robert's Rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 They sure were during Robert's Rebellion. As great duo as they might have been (even during RR, we know Ned was totally different than Robert and we know that they even had a confrontation in KL), the thing is that as the duo, ultimately they are a huge failure. I don't even know which one is worse. The ass Robert was or Ned who just sat and closed his eyes by imagining what a man Robert once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 As great duo as they might have been (even during RR, we know Ned was totally different than Robert and we know that they even had a confrontation in KL), the thing is that as the duo, ultimately they are a huge failure. I don't even know which one is worse. The ass Robert was or Ned who just sat and closed his eyes by imagining what a man Robert once was. Aye. Imagine how useful Jon could have been during the whole Jeyne Westerling thing. I doubt Jon is afraid to tell Robb the things like they are like Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 wouldn't Arya/Gendry be a better comparison to Ned/Robert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Well if Jon had been with Robb he probably would have commanded the infantry rather than Roose, that's a pretty big improvement, they might have even been able to get back North, but they wouldn't have been as successful as a 4some, which is what Robert and Ned had with Hoster and Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megaera Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Robert and Ned were on a par socially and seen as 'equals' by their contempories during the rebellion. Jon would always be seen as lower in status than Robb because of his bastardy, and although in private could speak to him as a brother, would never do that in the open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Ned and Robert are considered SUCCESSFUL duo? What makes you say that? In war, both the rebellion against Aerys and the ironborn rebellion. In peace times they were never a tandem. The king/hand of the king time period was indeed not successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Robert and Ned were on a par socially and seen as 'equals' by their contempories during the rebellion. Jon would always be seen as lower in status than Robb because of his bastardy, and although in private could speak to him as a brother, would never do that in the open. Torrhen Stark trusted in his brother Brandon Snow. Also, allegedly, Aegon I and Orys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage of Westeros Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Torrhen Stark trusted in his brother Brandon Snow. Also, allegedly, Aegon I and Orys. Yeah I see this working similar to as you mention with the above. Orys brought nothing to Aegon but was his stalwart, his strong right arm. In a world of political deviants, someone you can trust is always helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megaera Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Torrhen Stark trusted in his brother Brandon Snow. Also, allegedly, Aegon I and Orys. Robb would undoubtedly trust Jon - but would Robb/Jon be seen as commanders of equal status like Ned/Robert? My point is not so much how Robb/Jon treat each other, but how they would be seen by their armies. I don't know much about 'before' tbh, were Torrhen and Brandon seen as a duo, or a liege lord commanding his bastard brother? If you throw Cat into the mix, I don't see her being too pleased about it and bending Robb's ear constantly about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 In war, both the rebellion against Aerys and the ironborn rebellion. In peace times they were never a tandem. The king/hand of the king time period was indeed not successful. Even in war, they have shown some major differences. They almost broke their friendship because of dead Targ children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowhere fast Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Robb would undoubtedly trust Jon - but would Robb/Jon be seen as commanders of equal status like Ned/Robert? My point is not so much how Robb/Jon treat each other, but how they would be seen by their armies. I don't know much about 'before' tbh, were Torrhen and Brandon seen as a duo, or a liege lord commanding his bastard brother? If you throw Cat into the mix, I don't see her being too pleased about it and bending Robb's ear constantly about it. Since Robb didn't really listen to Cat during the war, I think it would have been the same if she tried to turn Robb against Jon. He wouldn't have allowed it. I do think Jon would have been 'the strong right arm' of Robb had he been there, maybe even preventing some of the disastrous descisions which happened during Robb's campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Jon is at the disadvantage of being a Bastard, so he does not offer the same political power that Ned gave Robert (the support of the North and a political alliance with the Riverlands through marriage). However, I do think that he would have offered Robb good council and a shoulder to lean on. ......And having a secret Targaryen is good if Robb clashes with Dany or (f)aegon. I think Jon/Robb would have been at their best as King in the North and Lord Commander. Together they could have united the Wildlings and North and made a formidable team in the Battle for the Dawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Even in war, they have shown some major differences. They almost broke their friendship because of dead Targ children. Indeed, but they did fairly well as a whole. I think having Jon Arryn as a mutual fatherlike figure was beneficial in uniting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Aye. Imagine how useful Jon could have been during the whole Jeyne Westerling thing. I doubt Jon is afraid to tell Robb the things like they are like Ned. :agree: He might not have needed Jeyne's "comfort" if he had a brother to cry with. Jon's presence could have potentially changed allot for Robb, just as much as it could have potentially changed nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
to steel Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 jon was never true friend of rob he didnt break his vow for him but he did for a girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Aye. Imagine how useful Jon could have been during the whole Jeyne Westerling thing. I doubt Jon is afraid to tell Robb the things like they are like Ned. True enough. Depends if Robb really felt like he loved her or was actually just being too honourable. If the latter then I could see Jon persuading him. He would have been a great comfort to Robb in any case when the news of WF filtered through. As for the thread question...I think Robb would have made a far better king then Robert in the long term, had he been allowed to live on and grow into the role in peace. Jon would make a great steady right hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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