Mel can't revive Jon

[Hippocras]

The vast majority of fans, books and show, seem to take it as a given that Mel can revive Jon, based on Thoros reviving Beric.

What if she can't? She has never revived anyone. She is pretty clear in her POV that red priests and priestesses do not all have the same abilities. Why does everyone automatically assume she has the same abilities as Thoros, when we know that he can not do what she can?

I think she may try, but it doesn't work. Jon will not be revived until whoever holds the torch (Thoros -> Beric -> Stoneheart -> ? -> ) passes it to Jon. Perhaps this happens because the BWB are captured and sent to the Wall. Or maybe it happens because they go there willingly, or because Mel goes to find them.

[Faydra]

The vast majority of fans, books and show, seem to take it as a given that Jon is as dead as Ned. 

[Hippocras]

The vast majority of fans, books and show, seem to take it as a given that Jon is as dead as Ned.

He seems to be dead yes. So was Beric, seven times.

He does, however, still have his head.

[Mithras]

My rejection to Mel resurrecting Jon idea is that I think it is more likely that Mel will try to roast him alive as blood sacrifice before he dies.

[Faydra]

He seems to be dead yes. So was Beric, seven times.

He does, however, still have his head.

I think GRRM said somewhere  "Oh, you think he's dead, do you?" 

 

Maybe Jon will enter a coma end up being kept alive by Bloodraven until he gets better (like Bran). He'd find knowledge he was privy before.

[Lady Sharya]

My rejection to Mel resurrecting Jon idea is that I think it is more likely that Mel will try to roast him alive as blood sacrifice before he dies.

This what I think will happen. Her torch finger is too itchy to pass it up.

OP- If the BB got caught, they'd hang. Lannisters aren't going to that kind.;)

[Yucef Menaerys]

I just think that if jon were to die,the story will begin to become less uninteresting given that a lot of people believe that jon is Azhor Ahai,so yeah I think GRRM will definitely find a way to bring back jon even if not through melisandre

[TheLordProtector]

Personally, I think Jon is dead. I don't think Mel will resurrect him. I think his brothers will burn him so he doesn't rise as a wight and I think that will be how Jon comes back. Mirroring Dany's pyre, but with a hint of Rh'llors about it.

[sweetsunray]

I don't think he's dead-dead and in need of resurrection. I think he needs healing, and what MMD botched up with Drogo, will succeed because there's a whole wall with magical wards inside for Mel to tap into inadvertently (she feels so powerful there, what magic she could work there, yadayada). Super healed Jon with ice magic (more badass than Vic's arm), but ieny miny magic left in the wall. If the others huff, and puff they'll bring the Wall down (especially if some fool blows some horn somewhere).

 

The less attractive alternative - Jon ends up sharing an ice cell with those 2 wildling dead he thought he could put to use.

[Lord Varys]

George has effectively established that Thoros is just going through the motions of a R'hllorian prayer with his resurrection stuff. Unless we go with 'R'hllor exists, cares about humanity for some occult reason, and likes resurrecting people out of the blue to show off his strength' or we go with 'Thoros is a great sorcerer who can raise people from the dead without realizing it himself' then we should seriously consider the possibility that Melisandre can do the same to Jon Thoros has done to Beric if she gives him the same funeral rites (not unlikely if she is the one laying him to rest).

 

And by the way: My guess is that the explanation for why the spell worked on Beric - and may work on Jon Snow - is that the Dondarrions have a drop of Targaryen blood. Baelor Breakspear's wife was Jena Dondarrion, and considering that he was the Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the throne it is quite unlikely that Daeron II married him to a woman who was not part-Targaryen herself (through one of Rhaena Targaryen's five daughters by Garmund Hightower).

 

We know the resurrection spell begins to work after the return of the dragons, and we also know that there were Red Temples in Valyria. What if the dragonlords imbued their blood with some magic enabling them to be brought back from the dead with some fire magic. One assumes that conquering/cheating death would be next thing you try to accomplish after you already rule the world. The Red Priests may have consciously or unconsciously made this spell part of their funeral rights. Say, because it became known that you could resurrect some people this way - the dragonlords would have had quite a lot of illegitimate offspring spreading through the population.

[ShelbySmythe]

What if he's just really, really wounded? A few stitched and some milk of the poppy should do the trick.

 

Really, I think people are taking Martin's quote too seriously.

 

"Oh, you think he's dead do you?" - GRRM.

 

I wouldn't take the quote on faith. I mean, what is the man meant to say? "Yes, he's dead?". "No, he survived?". Either way, he's spoiling something. It's much easier to leave the answer open-ended. I think most people now are just taking it to mean that he's alive.

[Tucu]

There is the possibility that Beric was resurrected by the power of the Isle of Faces. He died near the lake in the middle of a wood grove. Beric semi-wight state also has more in common with Coldhands that with whatever magic keeps Mel alive or healed Victarion's hand. Beric group live in weirwood caves, interact with the GoHH, never burn anyone (unlike other R'hllor followers) and are never disturbed by Nymeria's wolf pack.

If this is the case, then Mel may have no ability to resurrect Jon.

[VenezuelanLord]

Thoros never resurrects anyone until he had to, making that comparison is useless, Mel hasn't but Jon could be her first. Although I would love to see Jon resurrected another way she is the most obvious option, unless you count the theory that states that he isn't really death and Val will heal him using the old way.. But its less likely

[lidsa]

She doesn't have to revive anybody, she just has to heal Jon's body enough for him to warg back into it.  

Didn't Varamyr only leave his own body behind because that wildling boy stabbed it/him?

[sweetsunray]

There is the possibility that Beric was resurrected by the power of the Isle of Faces. He died near the lake in the middle of a wood grove. Beric semi-wight state also has more in common with Coldhands that with whatever magic keeps Mel alive or healed Victarion's hand. Beric group live in weirwood caves, interact with the GoHH, never burn anyone (unlike other R'hllor followers) and are never disturbed by Nymeria's wolf pack.

If this is the case, then Mel may have no ability to resurrect Jon.

 

I agree. I think it's location bound. I don't expect any resurrection like the one Thoros did to work outside of the Riverlands, which is full of references as serving as an "underworld" area. In the underworld the dead dwell. Outside of it, it only works if zombified. 

[Lord Varys]

ShelbySmythe,

 

that is very unlikely. Medieval/ancient medicine couldn't heal gut injuries, and Jon has a dagger buried in his stomach. Let's just say he is better off dead. Not to mention that the dagger between the shoulder blades could already dealt him a mortal wound. And the feeling you get from the end of the chapter isn't that there were only four daggers. If he isn't dead already he is dying since 2011 continuously. However, George's quote could refer to his spirit surviving in Ghost for the time being. If he begins his second life he wouldn't really be dead, right? Only his body would.

 

A lot of people make a fuzz about a real resurrection being too much/over the top, but that's you get if the author decides to kill a character without allowing him to stay dead. Not to mention that hanging out in Ghost would remarkably change the resurrection process from Beric - whose soul seems to have restored along with his body. Jon's spirit would be in Ghost, untouched by the spell, and the difficulty would then be to reunite body and spirit again. We could very well get some sort of mindless drone Jon if Mel gives him the fire kiss, and is body is resurrected in the process. He could spend quite some time in a Drogo-like state.

[ShelbySmythe]

ShelbySmythe,

 

that is very unlikely. Medieval/ancient medicine couldn't heal gut injuries, and Jon has a dagger buried in his stomach. Let's just say he is better off dead. Not to mention that the dagger between the shoulder blades could already dealt him a mortal wound. And the feeling you get from the end of the chapter isn't that there were only four daggers. If he isn't dead already he is dying since 2011 continuously. However, George's quote could refer to his spirit surviving in Ghost for the time being. If he begins his second life he wouldn't really be dead, right? Only his body would.

 

A lot of people make a fuzz about a real resurrection being too much/over the top, but that's you get if the author decides to kill a character without allowing him to stay dead. Not to mention that hanging out in Ghost would remarkably change the resurrection process from Beric - whose soul seems to have restored along with his body. Jon's spirit would be in Ghost, untouched by the spell, and the difficulty would then be to reunite body and spirit again. We could very well get some sort of mindless drone Jon if Mel gives him the fire kiss, and is body is resurrected in the process. He could spend quite some time in a Drogo-like state.

 

Whatever the case, I'm sure we'll get a satisfying answer. It is George R.R. Martin after all.

[pigpiginsunspear]

She doesn't have to revive anybody, she just has to heal Jon's body enough for him to warg back into it.  

Didn't Varamyr only leave his own body behind because that wildling boy stabbed it/him?

 

This is definitely a possibility.  Think Vicatarion's arm.  Jon's wounds are obviously more extensive.

 

I don't think this will be the case.  I think there is a reason GRRM included Varamyr's part on a second life.

[Chinoiserie]

I do not know why many people do not seem to want Jon to be resurected by Melisandre. Not that it will certainly happen but I just do not see any reason why it would be a bad thing, at least if he warged into Ghost.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I used to be adamant that Jon is alive and will just need to heal. 

But Since season 6 of the show (and god knows I am LOATH to mention that damn show.) I have had to admit that it seems increasingly likely Mel will resurrect him. But I have always and still do hate the idea. 

 

that said. I have also done  a huge amount of research and re reading into R'hllor and the various magic's used in the ASOIAF universe. And since deciding that the magics are indeed in no way accountable to an actual god, and thus are just in world magic's being utilised by various religions to strengthen their following, I feel less angry at the idea of my beloved jon having anything to do with that horrid nasty r'hllor shit. 

 

So As Lord Varys pointed out above. It has become evident that the prayer Thoros used to resurrect Beric was as he told us a traditional R'hllorist death rite, and this means it is likely Mel also knows it and if she is conducting Jon's last rite's she will use it. 

My own conclusion has been that this "prayer" is in fact just a spell. A spell which at one time resurrected the dead (I'm not sure why Lord Varys feels the recipient must have Targ/dragon lord blood for it to work but would be interested in further discussion on that.) and that as magic waned from the world it ceased to be effective. But as a tradition the "prayer" remained. 

 

Now I happen to also think that Mellisandre is a fire wight herself, having received the flame at some point. So I think she will know full well what she is attempting if and when she does this on Jon. 

I still hold out some hope that he is indeed merely injured and can convalesce and avoid being tainted by the Red God I try very hard and am very determined not to allow the stupid show to dictate what I feel the books are going to do. But I had to admit he looked pretty fucking dead at the end their and them having Mel return to the wall seemed deliberate. Gah!! 

 

I've always maintained that The Skinchanger Boraq is there for a reason, I feel he will be Jon's teacher in all things warging. After all Bran has had Jojen and I feel Jon who has always been reluctant to acknowledge and embrace his abilities needs a guide in the same way. Someone with more experience who can tutor him. I always said that whilst he is healing Boraq will take on this role. So maybe there is going to be fire healing instead of actual raising of the dead? We saw it done with Victarion, and we know MMD told us there is great healing power in Fire. i don't doubt that Mellisandre knows the secrets of the flames in this manor too. 

I think I'd be more comfortable with her simply using fire to heal seemingly fatal wounds. and thus keeping the essence of Jon intact. And then him taking time to learn how to fully master his warg side. He undoubtedly will have slipped into Ghost in the moment when we leave him IMO. I think if he has that it will be his first time in Ghosts skin without having been asleep. And so is significant in that way. 

 

Anyway I do think mel could perform the Kiss of Fire. I just hope she doesn't have to.