Brannis the Mannis Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 It was morally and strategically sound- but it would still be asking a lot for the brothers to accept it. For thousands of years, the Night's Watch has been guarding against the wildlings, and they recently lost a lot of men to a wildling assault. They wouldn't exactly like Jon letting through the enemy they just fought. In addition, there's no way that the NW and the wildlings can fight together properly. There's thousands of years of animosity between the two groups, and if a black brother or a Thenn gets hit by a "stray arrow", then they're going to be at each other's throats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 If only multiple characters had discussed this in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I wouldn't call it a mistake, but a very risky and dangerous calculation. But is not the NW the ones who I worry about: not even Mance, the one who they called their "King", could assure Jon they would behave and they are now pretty much loose in the North. I'm sure few of them will try to behave and adapt, and even keep a low profile in order to survive, but others, also in order to survive, will pillage, sack and even rape in many Northern towns, specially now that winter is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 No, I wouldn't call it a mistake, even given the way things turned out. Bowen and the cabal did not assassinate (attempt?) Jon simply because he let the wildlings through. It was getting ready to lead a foray against the Boltons that was the final straw. I really don't think there would be much problems with the Wildlings and NW fighting together. You would be amazed how quickly two foes can pull it together when faced with a common, terrifying enemy. In the end, everybody is probably going to have to fight together if they want to beat the Others, and it's going to mean letting go or putting on hold some old grudges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 There is only the NW assumption that the Wall is there to protect against the Wildlings. We know different and now they do too. Jon was right to reinterpret their oath to include the Wildlings as "Men" to protect. Better living people than wights later on. I disagre that they can't fight together. When the Others come knocking at the Wall, the difference between North & South humans will disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Of course not. Giving the Others another 100k soldiers would have been the mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeWesterosGreatAgain Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Of course not. Giving the Others another 100k soldiers would have been the mistake. Yup. All there is to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I've thought a bit about it back and forth and come to the conclusion that it was not a mistake but it did create a delicate situation that would require an experienced and respected leader on both sides to get to work for sure, and preferably with a Warden of the North who would be in on the ideas well, as well as ready with an army in case trouble breaks out. Right now it could go either way but I'm more thinking that it will blow up than stabilize. But it remains to see in Winds how this will develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 They should have been let through thousands of years ago but I think Jon made the right decisions but it will cause lots and lots of problems which a unified North could handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 It was the only available strategy against the Others. So No. His mistake was not trying to clear the animosity between those two groups. He forced his brothers to live with it instead of trying to clear the differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brannis the Mannis Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Of course not. Giving the Others another 100k soldiers would have been the mistake. I'd say 100,000 north of the wall is preferable to 5,000 south of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 No it was not very bad that nightswatch forget their real enemy and cant see the bigger picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeWesterosGreatAgain Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I'd say 100,000 north of the wall is preferable to 5,000 south of it. Mance almost broke through the wall with a relative handful of human soldiers. Feel like the walkers could easily get through the already damaged defenses with their entire army + 100000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I've thought a bit about it back and forth and come to the conclusion that it was not a mistake but it did create a delicate situation that would require an experienced and respected leader on both sides to get to work for sure, and preferably with a Warden of the North who would be in on the ideas well, as well as ready with an army in case trouble breaks out. Right now it could go either way but I'm more thinking that it will blow up than stabilize. Agree, but with the case of one leader, I think that's not possible. I already said they had Mance, and Mance pretty much told Jon he wouldn't do anything to stop the wildlings from do what they needed/wanted to do in the North and I doubt they would have listened to any Warden of the North, pro or anti Lannister. This situation parallels Dany's in Meeren (that's why they both are in the same book): it's like a riddle without a solution. There is not one. Jon tried to be a leader that is the opposite of Dany and at the end, they both failed. They also had both good intentions and they still brought misery to the people they tried to help. What's GRRM trying to tell us? That there is no one right answer, nor even a "right" or a "wrong". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I've thought a bit about it back and forth and come to the conclusion that it was not a mistake but it did create a delicate situation that would require an experienced and respected leader on both sides to get to work for sure IF this is the case, which seems plausible, then it was Bowen Marsh who made the mistake when the cabal attempted to/killed Jon Snow. Since it was Jon Snow who was keeping the Wildlings south of the wall in line. He was the one they respected, since he had spent time among them, and understood them best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I'd say 100,000 north of the wall is preferable to 5,000 south of it.That's just crazy. Why would you want to fill the Others ranks? The Wall wasn't built to keep out the Wildlings, they just happened to be on the wrong side of it. They're just going to have to adapt to the way things are done south of the Wall. Not letting them through would be not only stupid, but immoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 It was the only available strategy against the Others. So No. His mistake was not trying to clear the animosity between those two groups. He forced his brothers to live with it instead of trying to clear the differences. How do you Jon could clear the animosity between them? By wedding wildling women to his brothers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Adding 100.000 wights to the undead army would be terrible. But I think the true horror in that case would be that many of those desperate humans in the North could have started worshipping the Others at the brink of extinction, sacrificing to them and boosting their numbers. This is far more serious than the wight problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 How do you Jon could clear the animosity between them? By wedding wildling women to his brothers? Explaining. Communicating. Not his POV only matter. He would be few knives short if he had done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philpenn Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 If Blackwood and Bracken can fight together after Rob saved them from Lannister threat, then Night's Watch and Free Folk can do the same vs the threat of the Others. May not be easy, but if it has to be done then a way will be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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