thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Robb wanted to help Walder's liege , of course Walder had to let him pass. No he didn't. If Hoster declared that Walder was to open his bridge for everyone free of charge Walder could still refuse, as it is still his land. He was not given the land by the Tullys, he has some obligations but he has free reign over his own lands. Robb was an invading army who was shooting down any raven entering or leaving the Twins, nor did Robb send any advanced message to ask Walder's permission to travel through his lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 No he didn't. If Hoster declared that Walder was to open his bridge for everyone free of charge Walder could still refuse, as it is still his land. He was not given the land by the Tullys, he has some obligations but he has free reign over his own lands. Robb was an invading army who was shooting down any raven entering or leaving the Twins, nor did Robb send any advanced message to ask Walder's permission to travel through his lands. House Frey has existed for a mere 600 years. The Targaryens reigned for fewer than 300 of those. The person/king/whatever who did grant that land to the Freys is long gone, and Walder has only ever known Tullys as his overlords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 House Frey has existed for a mere 600 years. The Targaryens reigned for fewer than 300 of those. The person/king/whatever who did grant that land to the Freys is long gone, and Walder has only ever known Tullys as his overlords. And? He owes Hoster some obligations, like he owes the Crown, but it is still his land to rule as he sees fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaibaman Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 And? He owes Hoster some obligations, like he owes the Crown, but it is still his land to rule as he sees fit. Couldn't have put it better myself. Also if we are to think that Walder is a scumbag for not fulfilling his feudal obligations to the Tullys then surely the same can be said about the Tullys themselves. After all Hoster did owe fealty to Aerys but unlike Walder he not only fufill his sworn duty to his king but outright turned against him in order to advance his own house. This is why I found Cat so hypocritical when she chastised Walder for not holding to his oath to the Tullys because I say her did far worse when he betrayed the Targaryens of whom he owed their very position to. At least Walder had the excuse of swearing dual oaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 And? He owes Hoster some obligations, like he owes the Crown, but it is still his land to rule as he sees fit. Well the way you stated that the Tully's didn't give him that land made me wonder if you thought that them having done so would have changed the dynamic, or that the Freys would "owe" whoever had granted it to them. In a feudal society the king owns everything. The nobles are stewards for the king. So Hoster is under the king, Walder is under Hoster and the king, and people under Walder are under all three. So no, it's not entirely his land to rule. If either of his overlords objected to something he wanted to do, he wouldn't be able to do it. With Robb he was in the position of choosing between the grandson of his LP or the crown. He chose the grandson of the LP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Blade Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 They rule their land as their liege lord sees fit, that is why stuff like the first night, flaying, slaving is illegal in the north. Edit: nvm just realized the targaryens banned the first night not the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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