Daeron III Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Is at the moment Drogon big enough for Daenerys to take Westeros? I've always been confused about the dragon sizes. Sorry if it sounds like a stupid question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediterraneo Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 There are no stupid questions! Welcome to the forums! My take is that if Daenerys plans on conquering Westeros just with a dragon, she would fail. Any person not having "Targaryen" as a last name would fail, no metter how proficient in combat and dragonriding. You need support to rule, and legiptimation and all. A dragon helps but, alone it cannot be enough. Daenerys is in the process of assembling quite a big force in Essos, though, and the political ground could also present very good opportunities for her. Drogon is already an impressive beast, able to survive quite a punishment, as we saw in the arena, and go on fighting and burning. And it is an animal of great cultural significance for westerosi people too, black as Balerion was. We will see if it will be enough! Or at least I hope so. Daenerys could very well get stuck in Essos for all of her life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Well, he's a hell of a lot bigger than any of her opponents dragons. :P Seriously though, is he Balerion, no. He can still be used quite effectively though. Especially when combined with the Unsullied, Dothraki, Sellswords, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedCounselor Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 To take Westeros? It depends on what he needs to be capable of to achieve that, obviously. If you mean as her primary military power in an entirely adversarial campaign to conquer all of Westeros, I'd say no: Drogon is still quite small in comparison to the big dragons of old. He would have to get quite close to use his firebreathing and even closer to use his claws and teeth. That would put himself and more importantly Dany in range of archers and crossbowmen which might be problematic. Armour could help, of course, but is not foolproof. He also lacks the firepower to turn entire armies into ash. On the other hand, the mere status symbol of having a dragon of ride-able size could feasible be enough to take Westeros by drawing lords to the Dany's side. For which he is ample big. If used smartly, he could also be a force multiplier that enhances a primarily conventional military campaign. The scouting potential is immense, supply trains would be very vulnerable. Any commander that strays from ballistic back up could quickly be roasted in a hit and run. A flank attack could create a critical weakness in a battle line. The uses are endless. Messengers, feathered or horsed can be intercepted. For this he seems big enough. So, essentially, it depends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Good question and Welcome! He's larger than his siblings and will only grow considering he seems to have the food and space to do so. I image he'll eventually get as big as Balerian. For now, he's big enough for her to ride. A Targaryen coming to the Seven Kingdoms on dragonback will be enough to bend plenty to her cause. The rest will come over through politics. If not, there's always fire and blood. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bastard Snow Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Well he had trouble flying with Dany.And I imagine a dragonrider would wear armor as a single stray arrow could kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor the Articulate Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 It's not the size of the dragon that counts, it's how you use it. Moondancer, for example, didn't defeat Sunfyre, but it did quite a bit of damage. And if that's still not enough, I hear there's special dragon enlargement techniques you use, pills and devices, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron III Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Interesting responses, thank you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 There are no stupid questions! Welcome to the forums! My take is that if Daenerys plans on conquering Westeros just with a dragon, she would fail. Any person not having "Targaryen" as a last name would fail, no metter how proficient in combat and dragonriding. You need support to rule, and legiptimation and all. A dragon helps but, alone it cannot be enough. Daenerys is in the process of assembling quite a big force in Essos, though, and the political ground could also present very good opportunities for her. Drogon is already an impressive beast, able to survive quite a punishment, as we saw in the arena, and go on fighting and burning. And it is an animal of great cultural significance for westerosi people too, black as Balerion was. We will see if it will be enough! Or at least I hope so. Daenerys could very well get stuck in Essos for all of her life... Drogon is currently not big enough to take on Westeros alone. But, remember that he doesn't have to fight. A dragon represents unquestionable proof of Targaryen identity. As you say, dragons have great cultural significance for Westeros. Drogon's presence alone will win the support of many houses. However, those houses "on the fence" and like to play it safe will want more assurances. A huge army of Dothraki, the Unsullied, and the Mother's Men will take care of that. Dany will have to return to Slaver's Bay for the long run. Perhaps Tyrion will end up on the Iron Throne should he choose to stay behind after the Targaryen conquest. It makes a great deal of sense for Essos and Westeros to be under the rulership of one person. The long winter will make food scarce. Resources will have to be shuttled back and forth from east to west. An Empress can make that happen. Short of an Empress, a close relationship between the two rulers will make such cooperation possible. The west will not be able to pay for food. Someone with enough leverage will have to convince the east to send food westward, without requiring payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wefollowthecomet Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Well he had trouble flying with Dany. Did he? I don't recall this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great and Mighty Poo Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Did he? I don't recall this. I didn't get that impression. He was littered with arrow fire and stabbed by spears, etc. Also first time a human was on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Drogon is not big enough to carry a horse as of the last chapter of Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedCounselor Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Drogon is not big enough to carry a horse as of the last chapter of Dany. A horse is quite heavy, approximately 10 times Dany's weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 A horse is quite heavy, approximately 10 times Dany's weight. Still, Drogon is a joke compared to the dragons used by Aegon in taking Westeros (which is the topic of this thread). One could ride a horse down Vhagar's gullet. Meraxes's was larger than Vhagar but smaller than Balerion. Meraxes could swallow horses whole. Balerion was the largest of all the Targaryen dragons, his teeth were as long as swords and his jaws big enough he could have swallowed an auroch whole, or even one of the hairy mammoths said to roam the cold wastes beyond the Port of Ibben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConfusedCounselor Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Still, Drogon is a joke compared to the dragons used by Aegon in taking Westeros (which is the topic of this thread). One could ride a horse down Vhagar's gullet. Meraxes's was larger than Vhagar but smaller than Balerion. Meraxes could swallow horses whole. Balerion was the largest of all the Targaryen dragons, his teeth were as long as swords and his jaws big enough he could have swallowed an auroch whole, or even one of the hairy mammoths said to roam the cold wastes beyond the Port of Ibben. No disagreement there. :wideeyed: I just thought we were still on the barely large enough to carry Dany thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravaggio Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Here is my question regarding this... George originally planned for a 5 year gap. Obviously, the dragons would have grown quite a bit in that time. Will George make the dragons in TWoW as big as they would have been with the gap or will they be smaller than he originally intended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Here is my question regarding this... George originally planned for a 5 year gap. Obviously, the dragons would have grown quite a bit in that time. Will George make the dragons in TWoW as big as they would have been with the gap or will they be smaller than he originally intended?He could easily just write that dragons hit a significant growth spurt around 3 years old. So he can make them as big as he originally intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Drogon is big enough to carry Dany for hundreds of miles, and to inflict significant damage on enemies. Clearly, he isn't in the same league as Vermithor, Sunfyre, or Melys, let alone Balerion, Vhagar or Meraxes. But, Dany's ability to ride Drogon carries immense prestige, and would be useful as a means of gathering intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravaggio Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Here is my question regarding this... George originally planned for a 5 year gap. Obviously, the dragons would have grown quite a bit in that time. Will George make the dragons in TWoW as big as they would have been with the gap or will they be smaller than he originally intended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediterraneo Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I'd like to contextualizes the claims about the great size of the dragons of the past. I agree that they were bigger than Drogon, even that they were significantly bigger than he will be in the next five to ten years. He will/would need centuries to become as big as Balerion and Vaghar were when they died. But we shouldn't be taking the affirmations about their size literally. People do tend to exagerate, expecially about the feats of the most significant extinguished animals in westerosi story. And when one starts saying that Vaghar was smaller than Meraxes at the time of the conquest and yet it could "swallow a horse" (which would be quite a feat)... Then soon someone that is not necessarily a first hand witness that says: "Meraxes could swallow an Uroch". And Balerion? Balerion "at least a wolly mammoth". That's exageration at work. We'd need to start getting together all of the dragons's descriptions with their sources, to actually make educated guesses. And in any case remember that a tooth that "just" resembles a dagger is in any case similar to the bigger teeth on an old Tyrannosaurus Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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