Channel4s-JonSnow Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I mean that is making the assumption that the North rallies and the Others don't just steamroller over the north. Which could just as likely happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 ^Idk if you haven't read the books or what but people assume Stannis wins because of the facts of the situation, not because we think he's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Stannis' position in the books is not brilliant, as of the end of Dance. However, the Boltons are also in a considerably worse position than they are in the TV show. Their "allies" in the other Northern Lords are tenuous at best. Lady Dustin and the Ryswells are the only ones who are somewhat reliable, and even then, it seems more a case of "We'll latch on to the winning horse, which for the time being is Roose." I don't think Barbrey Dustin would hesitate for a moment to turn on Roose if it would save her. She seems a woman who is very focused on self-preservation. Tensions are also high in Winterfell in the books. At the end of A Damce with Dragons, there have been mysterious murders, and the Freys and Manderlys have resorted to open violence in Winterfell's Great Hall. Roose sends them out to do battle with Stannis, and it seems incredibly likely that the Manderlys soldiers will attack the Freys. And then if we venture into Winds of Winter spoilers [spoiler] Stannis' position looks considerably less desperate. The Karstark treachery has been revealed before it can cause him any particular trouble. Aenys Frey has been killed by the Umber boys. Stannis has just taken out a loan with the Iron Bank and sent Justin Massey to hire sellswords in Essos. And he has a strategic advantage, being on an island in the middle of an iced over lake that is already considerably weakened. It seems more likely than not that he will emerge from that victorious.[/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I understand all that, but this is fiction. It doesn't necessarily follow that what you assume will happen is what is going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I understand all that, but this is fiction. It doesn't necessarily follow that what you assume will happen is what is going to happen. ...okay? But this is a thread for speculation. Which is what we are doing, based on the way the narrative is progressing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 GRRM: A number of characters dead in the show WILL survive in the books. But not all. So don't get complacent. Please don’t kill Shireen. Please don’t kill Shireen. Please don’t kill Shireen. Please don’t kill Shireen. Please don’t kill Shireen. Please don’t kill Shireen. Please don’t kill Shireen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Stark Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Team Dragonstone: Stannis probably won't make it till the end, but has as good of a chance as anyone. Shireen, Selyse do not matter either way. Really have no bearing on the outcome of the series Team Khaleesi: Barristan will more than likely die fulfilling his duty of protecting the Queen so he can go out doing what he was put on westeros for Rakharo, Irri and Jhiqui again doesn't matter. Ancillary characters who are no more than red shirts. No-Team Khaleesi: Hizdhar, Pyat Pree and Xaro Xhoan Daxos doesn't really matter. Interesting characters and maybe Pyat Pree shows up for revenge, but in the end will have disappeared or killed by Danaerys Team Lannister: Myrcella is dead due to prophecy, though I will admit that prophecies aren't always accurate Meryn Trant if when the Lannisters lose and he runs off as a coward and hides, he can live. If not, probably dies when the Lannisters fall protecting them Team We-re-freezing-our-butts Mance Ryder will live. He is very cunning and no one really has a clue to as what he looks like. Think he will make it, which will go along with those Pink Letter theories. Jojen was always going to die, he even said he saw his death Grenn, Pyp one or both will die. They are at the wall, the most dangerous place in the realm and will be first in line in the battle for dawn 2. Just cant see them both living Team Robb Catelyn well Ladystoneheart while not alive, is very much a reanimated corpse, Brienne chops off Stonehearts head to save Jaime and Pod and becomes the leader of the Brothers without banners. Talisa/Jeyne Jeyne will escape and somehow live this whole ordeal, but with no heir because of moon tea, does it really even register. While it is a fun topic, I can't see it really mattering for the overall plot for many of these people to live throughout the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 ^In the books Pyat Pree and the Warlocks. (Seriously, can't say this with a straight face. I feel like I'm talking about some cheesy band :lol: ) are already with Euron, who captured them as they were sailing for Pentos (they were presumably searching for Dany, as that is where her ships were headed). From the App it is suggested that [spoiler] Victarion's Draghorn was not found in Valyria, but was taken from the Warlcoks [/spoiler] So whatever Euron is up to, it seems that in the books at least, the Warlocks are also caught up in that. As Euron is seemingly going to appear next season, I assume they will just include him without the Warlocks (and maybe without the Draghorn too, idk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Shireen, Selyse do not matter either way. Really have no bearing on the outcome of the series Absolutely not. Shireen, if she survives, becomes a very important figure because just by marriage to her, any Lord can make a serious claim to not only Storm's End but also to entire Westeros. Besides, Stannis does not seem like he will have another trueborn child. So, Shireen will end up as the last trueborn Baratheon if she survives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 ...okay? But this is a thread for speculation. Which is what we are doing, based on the way the narrative is progressing... Ok then speculate, there is a lot of certainty around here that Stannis is going to win, I'm just pointing out that 'you know nothing' :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 I understand all that, but this is fiction. It doesn't necessarily follow that what you assume will happen is what is going to happen. Fiction controlled by an author who carefully plans his narrative and plants the hints and clues for events to come :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Fiction controlled by an author who carefully plans his narrative and plants the hints and clues for events to come :dunno: And who never surprises his readers and lays out in detail exactly what is going to happen before it happens. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 But the surprises are foreshadowed/hinted, organic within the narrative, they don't just happen out of thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 And who never surprises his readers and lays out in detail exactly what is going to happen before it happens. :dunno: Then surely this supports the hypothesis that Stannis is going to win the battle against the Freys. The hints and foreshadowing in the novels point to this, which is the basis for our speculation. There is not a very strong basis for supposing he loses and dies in the upcoming battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 And who never surprises his readers and lays out in detail exactly what is going to happen before it happens. :dunno: The Red Wedding was-- I was going to say "foreshadowed" but it was not: it was pretty much literally implicit already in aCoK by being shown to both Theon and Dany that Robb will die and how. "Mhysa" scene was also shown as it happened in a vision. GRRM is not the "omg, shocking!" author people believe him to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 ^^ Exactly. Even Ned's death, it's all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting for Howland Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 The Red Wedding was-- I was going to say "foreshadowed" but it was not: it was pretty much literally implicit already in aCoK by being shown to both Theon and Dany that Robb will die and how. "Mhysa" scene was also shown as it happened in a vision. GRRM is not the "omg, shocking!" author people believe him to be. Definitely, hence why if Stannis were to die, it wouldn't be from an army randomly charging out to meet him in an open field slaughter and us not seeing it coming. All evidence we have is for a pro-Stannis outcome, but that evidence is subtle or foreshadowed. First look, Stannis is outgunned, low on food, freezing to death. Look deeper and he's in arguably a better position than his enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Stannis will definitely win the Battle on Ice. The only question is, how much loss he will suffer, which is related to who will ride against him and in which order. The first waves are easy to guess. Stannis will draw the Freys to the ice lake by using baits. The ice will break as the Freys charge and they will drown, especially with the Manderlys pushing them in the rear. After the Manderlys, Ramsay is supposed to lead a Bolton host according to Roose’s orders but the plan might change considerably after the escape of fArya and Reek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 ^^ And the Boltons are feeling quite confident despite the palpable tension in Winterfell, because Roose received the raven Karstark sent, and he doesn't know Stannis knows about Karstark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Stannis is probably already dead tbh. I expect the Pink Letter to be real, and we will get the actual battle in the early parts of Winds. They've made changes, but Stannis dying earlier than he is supposed to would be far and away the biggest unless he completely becomes irrelevant in the books very shortly (IE: loses his family, army, and is relegated to nothing but a bystander for Jon).Shireen also died for a reason, she's done.The characters I honestly expect to make it to the end that were killed in the show were ones that seemed like they weren't going to be as important later on. Pree, Xaro, Jhoqo, Jeyne who wasn't there, but Robb's wife probably makes it through the end, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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