Viking Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Consider this, perhaps The Mad King wasn't mad at all. I want you to entertain the thought that King Aerys wasn't mad but rather possessed the revelation of prophecy depicting his horrid fate. King Aerys lived a life guided and dominated by prophecy. He was made to marry his sister based on the prophecy that from their line the Prince who was Promised would be born. He lost his entire family based on the prophecy that at Summer Hall a dragon would be born. I want you to entertain the idea that Aerys lived his life with a prophecy that foretells of him being overthrown and murdered: that prophecy tells him that Tywin will become his enemy: that prophecy describes the Knight of the Laughing Tree's exploits at the Harrenhall Tourney and warns that this knight will play a pivotal role in the fall of the Targaryens; that he knows he will be killed by a blade wielded by someone close to him and that fire can be used to stop the threat. He misunderstands prophecy like virtually everybody else that tries to comprehend it. He acts based on that misunderstanding. It's a bit hard to go into detail on this because we do not know what the details of the prophecy are. But, there are some possible links. - He ends his friendship with Tywin because prophecy tells him that Tywin will betray him. - He bans Jamie from competing in the Harrenhall tourney because he thinks he'll fill the role of the Knight of the Laughing Tree - He sends Rhaegar after the Knight of the Laughing Tree because he knows the Knight will spark the rebellion which overthrows him - He makes Jamie a Kingsguard because prophecy tells him Jamies son will sit the Iron Throne - He goes to Duskendale against Tywin's advice because prophecy tells him that trusting Lannister council will lead to his death - He doesn't have his hair cut because prophecy tells him that he will be killed by a blade wielded by someone he trusts - He burns Rickard Stark when he realizes that he'd understood prophecy wrong - He decides to burn Kings Landing because it's the only way he can think of to raise the Dragons needed to fight the battle for the Dawn His life makes sense if he lives it by misunderstood prophecy. Am I completely off base here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Am I completely off base here? Yes you are. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Spoon Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 If he was warned via prophecy he did everything in his power to make sure it was fulfilled. His lurching from disaster to disaster was madness and paranoia not trying to cheat a horrible future he had a glimpse of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 No you are not. We are already seeing Cersei walking the same road. This makes more sense than some genetic madness kicking in. Some of his actions are lot more saner for a crazy person and some of them might have a different meaning if we know him better . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bastard Snow Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 You know what's really funny.Blood Raven totally fucked his family over. He sent Howland to the Isle of Faces and after Howland was attacked by three squires angering the she-wolf who then beat three knights as The Knight of the Laughing Tree and Aerys ironically enough said that the Knight posed a great threat to his family.And the Knight did bring about the ruin of his house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 Yes you are. :) How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 If he was warned via prophecy he did everything in his power to make sure it was fulfilled. His lurching from disaster to disaster was madness and paranoia not trying to cheat a horrible future he had a glimpse of. It's one thing to say that I don't have support for what I am suggestion, it's something else to just assert the contrary. Like all proper prophecies in literature this one gets misunderstood and the attempt to avoid the prophecied consequences are the cause of those consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kinkslayer Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Varys played him as a cheap Valyrian fiddle. No prophecy needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar Estellion Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Aerys wasn't mad. He just suffered from a combination of extreme paranoia (which was basically justified). You can explain it all without inventing a prophesy. Being interested in your friend's wife can strain and destroy any friendship. When that dude also happens to be one of the mightiest in the Kingdom, you need to be suspicious of him. He doesn't cut his hair because he is traumatized from being tortured in Duskendale. His life makes sense without inventing a prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Aerys wasn't mad. He just suffered from a combination of extreme paranoia (which was basically justified). You can explain it all without inventing a prophesy. Being interested in your friend's wife can strain and destroy any friendship. When that dude also happens to be one of the mightiest in the Kingdom, you need to be suspicious of him. He doesn't cut his hair because he is traumatized from being tortured in Duskendale. His life makes sense without inventing a prophecy. So his hobby of burning people alive and then raping his wife/sister afterwards is completely normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspoi Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 For someone with such an accurate and descriptive prophesy he sure did a bad job stopping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 We can say the same for Ramsay and Joff, they weren't always evil... But it's no shame to call them crazy, well Joff has the excuse of being a child and that's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 - He ends his friendship with Tywin because prophecy tells him that Tywin will betray him. - He bans Jamie from competing in the Harrenhall tourney because he thinks he'll fill the role of the Knight of the Laughing Tree - He sends Rhaegar after the Knight of the Laughing Tree because he knows the Knight will spark the rebellion which overthrows him - He makes Jamie a Kingsguard because prophecy tells him Jamies son will sit the Iron Throne - He goes to Duskendale against Tywin's advice because prophecy tells him that trusting Lannister council will lead to his death - He doesn't have his hair cut because prophecy tells him that he will be killed by a blade wielded by someone he trusts - He burns Rickard Stark when he realizes that he'd understood prophecy wrong - He decides to burn Kings Landing because it's the only way he can think of to raise the Dragons needed to fight the battle for the Dawn His life makes sense if he lives it by misunderstood prophecy. Am I completely off base here? The word you're looking for is "undocumented". Was there such a detailed, multi-part prophecy? Says who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular John Umber Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Am I completely off base here?Nah, that's not a bad analysis of it at all. I think that it could be both though - he was trying to avoid prophetic doom and that was driving him mad? No you are not. We are already seeing Cersei walking the same road. This makes more sense than some genetic madness kicking in. Some of his actions are lot more saner for a crazy person and some of them might have a different meaning if we know him better .This is a great analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular John Umber Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Apologies for the double post:Varys played him as a cheap Valyrian fiddle. No prophecy needed. Sure, but that doesn't exclude prophecy. So his hobby of burning people alive and then raping his wife/sister afterwards is completely normal?No one said that. That still makes him a total dick. A mad one, at that. But he could have been driven to madness by prophecy, and by someone pushing it on him. For someone with such an accurate and descriptive prophesy he sure did a bad job stopping it. I think that was the point of the post: he tried to stop it, but you can't, because it is prophecy i.e. a view of something that will happen. The word you're looking for is "undocumented". Was there such a detailed, multi-part prophecy? Says who?We don't know how detailed the prophecies are. If we did, we would know exactly what Rhaegar was up to with his whole 'Prince that was promised' obsession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar Estellion Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 So his hobby of burning people alive and then raping his wife/sister afterwards is completely normal? What if I told you that madness and cruelty are two different things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 How? Basically on every point, from the initial premise to the follow through. Aerys wasn't mad. He just suffered from a combination of extreme paranoia (which was basically justified). You can explain it all without inventing a prophesy. Being interested in your friend's wife can strain and destroy any friendship. When that dude also happens to be one of the mightiest in the Kingdom, you need to be suspicious of him. He doesn't cut his hair because he is traumatized from being tortured in Duskendale. His life makes sense without inventing a prophecy. Extreme paranoia? Check Obsessed with fire? Check Sexually aroused by murder? Check Afraid of inanimate objects? Check Grandiose plans with no follow through? Check Yeah no you can't explain most of that with a flick of the hand. He was crazy before Duskendale and that completely shattered him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 By starters, the whole "all Targaryens are mad!" is an exaggeration. It took them 18 Kings and 300 years to FINALLY have one called "The Mad King". Was Aerys mad? The thing is that the word "mad" is not a diagnosis. A doctor won't tell you "you're mad". Idem with Aerys: there were many events and situations that explain what happened to him. I don't think a prophecy was related but we do know one Targaryen who had to drink in order to shut down his gift. If we want to understand Aerys, we first need to see Cersei. Cersei has always been entitled, something her father caused. She was told, since childhood, she was meant to be a Queen and she was meant to be important. The interpretation of the prophecy is meaningless at this point: what made her lose her mind is the fact a prophecy told her she was not having what she was told she deserved. What made her what she is now is the threat of losing everything she believes is her own by right. There is some evidence that Aerys has always been a bit carried away and hotblooded. To be fair, I think a big lot of Kings in their story and in our story have been the same. The problem started after Duskendale. Duskendale is for Aerys was Maggy's prophecy was for Cersei: the realisation that he was not safe. Add to that the fact his Council was trying to get some profit from his poor mind state, the fact his son was in fact trying to remove him and that Tywin Lannister himself said openly that they should let him die and crown Rhaegar instead. Also, Varys, who I suppose was telling him the truth of all of this, in a very exaggerated manner. So, no real need of having a prophecy above this. His behaviour can be well explained in text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 No one said that. That still makes him a total dick. A mad one, at that. But he could have been driven to madness by prophecy, and by someone pushing it on him. The premise of this thread is that Aerys was sane and that he was influenced by prophecy. We have clear evidence towards him being mad and no evidence about him acting on a prophecy. What if I told you that madness and cruelty are two different things? Getting sexually aroused by burning someone to death goes well beyond cruelty into insanity territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Wait a sec. So Aerys believes someone (close, trusted) will kill him with a blade, and he believes that he's gonna be betrayed by a Lannister, so... he appoints Ser Jaime Lannister to his Kingsguard? Doesn't seem to make too much sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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