Nordahl iceskin Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The starks seem to have an unusual amount of run-ins with Valyrian steel. Considering Valyrian steel is made with dragon fire it seems strange to be so deeply connected to the North. Eddard has ice, and is executed with it. Jon is given Longclaw and takes the position of Lord commander from Mormont Catelyn is cut by a Valyrian dagger preventing an assassination attempt on Bran Sansa learns that Joffrey's new sword Widow's wail is made from Ice To stretch this even further, Brienne named Oathkeeper with intentions to find Arya and Sansa. Also With Robb dead and Bran in a tree, Rickon should have inherited Ice. On another note, Theon is the only one who I don't think has connections to Valyrian steel in his story. The title of these books is ASoIaF, so this appears to be deliberate writing by GRRM (A sword named ice, forged in dragon fire). If you have any thoughts on the connection, or Valyrian steel in general please comment. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The starks seem to have an unusual amount of run-ins with Valyrian steel. Considering Valyrian steel is made with dragon fire it seems strange to be so deeply connected to the North. The title of these books is ASoIaF, so this appears to be deliberate writing by GRRM (A sword named ice, forged in dragon fire). If you have any thoughts on the connection, or Valyrian steel in general please comment. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. We don't 100% know that dragonfire is used to forge Valyrian Steel. That said, yeah it probably is. We do know for sure that spells are involved, and probably blood too. All Valyrian sorcery is rooted in fire and blood. That line there is just beautiful! Nicely done. GRRM says his titles have multiple meanings, and this may be one of them. What's your take on the original Ice, greatsword of House Stark? Think that plays into this at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordahl iceskin Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 What's your take on the original Ice, greatsword of House Stark? Think that plays into this at all? That is an interesting question that i never considered. Ice was melted down into two swords, one given to Joffrey, who gave the order to execute Ned, the other to Jaime, and then Brienne to protect starks. The sword is split into two swords used for opposing purposes, a dichotomy of sorts, yet the two swords are made from the same steel, so they are one and the same. This is another representation of how ice and fire, as well as the love and hatred towards Starks are opposites, but as Jojen would say: "If ice can burn, then love and hate can mate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edd fetch me the boo box Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I think he means the original Ice before they got the shiny new Valyrian sword just before the Doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jô Maltese Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 That is an interesting question that i never considered. Ice was melted down into two swords, one given to Joffrey, who gave the order to execute Ned, the other to Jaime, and then Brienne to protect starks. The sword is split into two swords used for opposing purposes, a dichotomy of sorts, yet the two swords are made from the same steel, so they are one and the same. This is another representation of how ice and fire, as well as the love and hatred towards Starks are opposites, but as Jojen would say: "If ice can burn, then love and hate can mate." I think LB meant the 1st sword Ice, from the Age of Heroes, which was not dragonsteel but more similar to Dawn - forged from a meteorite metal maybe. We know of its existence from tWoIaF. Some people think that the original Stark Ice and the Dayne Dawn might be the same sword, and therefore Ice/Dawn could become Lightbringer for Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordahl iceskin Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 I think LB meant the 1st sword Ice, from the Age of Heroes, which was not dragonsteel but more similar to Dawn - forged from a meteorite metal maybe. We know of its existence from tWoIaF. Some people think that the original Stark Ice and the Dayne Dawn might be the same sword, and therefore Ice/Dawn could become Lightbringer for Jon. Yea i didn't realize that at first. GRRM does like to make parallels with real life history as well as with his own fictional history of westeros. I have not heard that theory before, but Ice is symbolic of the long winter, and Dawn symbolic of the end of winter, so again they are seemingly opposite, yet quite possibly the same thing. I'm going to save my predictions on the significance of the original sword Ice for TWoW, it seems like a fitting book to unveil more history behind the original long night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywintersong Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I never gave it too much thought..as a major family, and the wardens of the north, it makes sense that they would have access to the same weapons as great lords from other regions. Even though the North is a distinct region with its own culture, it was still under the Targaryens after Torrhen. Since the Starks move among members of the families with lordships, and those families have Valyrian steel swords, they are bound to come in contact with them. On a side note, do you think two Starks will eventually get their hands on the two swords forged from Ice? The steel coming full circle back to the Stark family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I think he means the original Ice before they got the shiny new Valyrian sword just before the Doom. I would assume that LADY Blizzardborn, the MOTHER of Games is a she, not a he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordahl iceskin Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 On a side note, do you think two Starks will eventually get their hands on the two swords forged from Ice? The steel coming full circle back to the Stark family? That would be amazing! Arya takes Widow's Wail after killing Cersei, and Rickon is given Oathkeeper after Davos returns him to winterfell. Something tells me we won't be seeing that happen, but at least we can dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywintersong Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 That would be amazing! Arya takes Widow's Wail after killing Cersei, and Rickon is given Oathkeeper after Davos returns him to winterfell. Something tells me we won't be seeing that happen, but at least we can dream. Could the names be hints of the swords futures, if this is true? This is purely speculative, I can't think of any way we could get text evidence for that. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncle Stark Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I never gave it too much thought..as a major family, and the wardens of the north, it makes sense that they would have access to the same weapons as great lords from other regions. Even though the North is a distinct region with its own culture, it was still under the Targaryens after Torrhen. Since the Starks move among members of the families with lordships, and those families have Valyrian steel swords, they are bound to come in contact with them. On a side note, do you think two Starks will eventually get their hands on the two swords forged from Ice? The steel coming full circle back to the Stark family? These were my thoughts. Lordly families often have run ins with Valyrian steel, because many lordly families have them. But I do think a start will at least get Brienne's sword back. She is with Lady Stonemason right now, and her oath was to use it for the starks. As for Joffreys blade, I doubt it will matter much. Kings Landing is a mess, and the only Stark who might go there soon is Arya if she takes on a killing contract for some Kings Landing royal. Hm. Well that is a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordahl iceskin Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Could the names be hints of the swords futures, if this is true? This is purely speculative, I can't think of any way we could get text evidence for that. ;-) Well I guess I've got the tinfoil on so I'll just keep going. Joffrey named the sword Widow's Wail for the wives of the men he slays in battle, but ironically Cersei is a Widow, so if Arya came into possession of the sword and used it on Cersei it might literally make her wail... lol. Oathkeeper could hint that Brienne keeps her oath in finding at least one stark (she could use a win). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 We don't 100% know that dragonfire is used to forge Valyrian Steel. That said, yeah it probably is. We do know for sure that spells are involved, and probably blood too. All Valyrian sorcery is rooted in fire and blood. I too always thought it was a strange coincidence that the Starks blade is named Ice (aside from the North) and the whole Jon Snow, Ice and FIre, possible ice dragon living near Winterfell, etc and so on. According to the wiki (I looked it up because I thought I remembered reading that it is), Valyrian steel is made with dragon fire. Now, I am not sure how much of that is true since Ice was melted down. I do know it requires a bit of magic spells during the forging process. I remember Gendry saying that and then again somewhere else. I do not ever remember reading about blood being involved, but could have forgotten. Here are a few excerpts from the wiki below: Valyrian steel was manufactured in the Valyrian Freehold with dragonfire before the freehold fell.[3] Valyrian steel keeps its edge forever.[3] Valyrian steel was always costly, but it became considerably more so when there was no more Valyria, the secret of its making lost with the Doom. Only the greatest weaponsmiths can reforge swords from existing Valyrian steel, making those remaining weapons highly treasured and extremely rare. The blacksmiths of Qohor claim to know how to reforge Valyrian steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Sorry for the multiple posts. Things are not working well on my end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 We don't 100% know that dragonfire is used to forge Valyrian Steel. That said, yeah it probably is. We do know for sure that spells are involved, and probably blood too. All Valyrian sorcery is rooted in fire and blood. Soory for the multiple posts. Things are working well on my end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Blade Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 People keep assuming there's 2 swords named Ice as if it was some proven fact. Catelyn just said the NAME was older than the sword itself, doesn't mean there was another blade, that's just wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 People keep assuming there's 2 swords named Ice as if it was some proven fact. Catelyn just said the NAME was older than the sword itself, doesn't mean there was another blade, that's just wishful thinking. You know of anything else in the series that is or was named Ice? I would assume that LADY Blizzardborn, the MOTHER of Games is a she, not a he. How did you guess? ;) I too always thought it was a strange coincidence that the Starks blade is named Ice (aside from the North) and the whole Jon Snow, Ice and FIre, possible ice dragon living near Winterfell, etc and so on. According to the wiki (I looked it up because I thought I remembered reading that it is), Valyrian steel is made with dragon fire. Now, I am not sure how much of that is true since Ice was melted down. I do know it requires a bit of magic spells during the forging process. I remember Gendry saying that and then again somewhere else. I do not ever remember reading about blood being involved, but could have forgotten. Here are a few excerpts from the wiki below: Valyrian steel was manufactured in the Valyrian Freehold with dragonfire before the freehold fell.[3] Valyrian steel keeps its edge forever.[3] Valyrian steel was always costly, but it became considerably more so when there was no more Valyria, the secret of its making lost with the Doom. Only the greatest weaponsmiths can reforge swords from existing Valyrian steel, making those remaining weapons highly treasured and extremely rare. The blacksmiths of Qohor claim to know how to reforge Valyrian steel. It may well be originally made with dragonfire, but it can be reworked without it. That's what Tobho Mott did. The Qohorik don't know how to make it from scratch though, probably because they don't have dragons to help. One of the big questions people have now is whether or not Gendry knows how to rework VS, given that he worked under Tobho Mott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspoi Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The same could be said for house Lannister, 1. Took Ice 2. forged Oathkeeper 3. forged Widow's Wail 4. Used the valyrian steel dagger. 5. Owned a historical valyrian steel sword named Brightroar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstream Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 How did you guess? ;) I'll have to give credit to my superior, unhumanly observational prowess. ;) One of the big questions people have now is whether or not Gendry knows how to rework VS, given that he worked under Tobho Mott. Very interesting thought, that never occurred to me for some reason. :dunce: That would be cool, but wouldn't it be strange for Tobho to share such a well guarded secret with an apprentice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordahl iceskin Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 One of the big questions people have now is whether or not Gendry knows how to rework VS, given that he worked under Tobho Mott. The significance of that being he could reforge Ice for the new KitN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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