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Why I Don't Think Cleganebowl will Happen


jr8zeppelin

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Don't get me wrong - The Hound is my favorite character in all of Game of Thrones and I would love nothing more than to see him triumph over Gregor, but there is a flaw.

 

In the books, when the Maggie the Frog flashback occured, she told Cersei “And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.” In Valyrian, Valonqar means little brother.

 

Now, some could argue that Ser Robert Strong could simply beat the Hound in the trial by combat, but I doubt they would bring back such a popular character only to kill him off for good in the same season.

 

What are your thoughts?

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I agree. I doubt that Robert Strong, a.k.a probably undead Gregor Clegane would have been introduced into the story just to die in the trial. I'm pretty sure he'll win it (but I thought that with Oberyn as well so I guess we'll see). Still though, I don't see the point in him being introduced if he's going to die (if he even can) straight away.
If Cleganebowl did happen, I just couldn't see the hound losing, what would be the point? It would probably just happen for shock value and would do nothing to advance the plot. Therefore, I just can't see Cleganebowl going ahead, even though it would be awesome.
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Don't get me wrong - The Hound is my favorite character in all of Game of Thrones and I would love nothing more than to see him triumph over Gregor, but there is a flaw.

 

In the books, when the Maggie the Frog flashback occured, she told Cersei “And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.” In Valyrian, Valonqar means little brother.

 

Now, some could argue that Ser Robert Strong could simply beat the Hound in the trial by combat, but I doubt they would bring back such a popular character only to kill him off for good in the same season.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Tyrion's champion lost and he wasn't executed, so Cersei losing her trial could be possible without her dying or the hound could just lose, I mean Oberon was awesome and popular, but he lost a trial by combat. So that doesn't seem to be stopping anyone from killing champions.

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People don't want to admit it, but The Hounds story line is over.  Gregor is on the quiet isle, atoning for his sins as The Hound, and will remain there.  He's keeping himself hidden and nobody knows he's even there (only Brienne suspects).  He's also rumored to be permanently injured from his scuffle at the Tavern.  Gregor Clegane, for all accounts, is over in ASOIAF.  His story line is wrapped up, his character is wrapped up, and his plot in the story is done.  And with only two books left and the story being drawn towards its conclusion....Gregor has nothing left to contribute.  Why pull him back into a story that is nearing the end?  Leave the guy be...he has a nice pretty bow on top of him and that's how it should remain.

 

I don't see Sandor having much longer either.  He's a dead, headless animated corpse.  He's going to serve as Cersei's "champion" but outside of that, has nothing else in the story to contribute.  He'll most likely not make it past the trial by combat himself when he faces his competitor.

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People don't want to admit it, but The Hounds story line is over.  Gregor is on the quiet isle, atoning for his sins as The Hound, and will remain there.  He's keeping himself hidden and nobody knows he's even there (only Brienne suspects).  He's also rumored to be permanently injured from his scuffle at the Tavern.  Gregor Clegane, for all accounts, is over in ASOIAF.  His story line is wrapped up, his character is wrapped up, and his plot in the story is done.  And with only two books left and the story being drawn towards its conclusion....Gregor has nothing left to contribute.  Why pull him back into a story that is nearing the end?  Leave the guy be...he has a nice pretty bow on top of him and that's how it should remain.
 
I don't see Sandor having much longer either.  He's a dead, headless animated corpse.  He's going to serve as Cersei's "champion" but outside of that, has nothing else in the story to contribute.  He'll most likely not make it past the trial by combat himself when he faces his competitor.


You mixed the names Sandor is the Hound, Gregor Cersie's Champion.
I agree with you, the Hound's arc reached a satisfactory end, he is at peace now.
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Oooh come on, to be an "ended" character people spend too much time thinking and talking about him. Look at Sansa, she's all about "OMG he kissed me" and stuff, so he's clearly gaining importance, he still has something to do in my opinion  and I'm pretty sure he's gonna meet his littlebird again. I also like the idea that he takes his helm back, realizing that his fight is not over yet. I'd love to see him part of the Stark restoration. 

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It obviously won't happen, for three reasons.

 

1. The Hounds story is finished, It was a perfect ending for him. He found peace after a lifetime of horrible violence. Bringing him back now would ruin all that.

 

2. Most readers probably still think he's dead. It would seem cheap and tacky if he suddenly turns up again.

 

3. Having the Clegane v Clegane fight seems too neat and tidy for GRRM. He doesn't give us what we want or expect - for example we'll never see Reek getting revenge on Ramsay or Sam living up to his father's expectations. Too cliched and predictable.

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It obviously won't happen, for three reasons.
 
1. The Hounds story is finished, It was a perfect ending for him. He found peace after a lifetime of horrible violence. Bringing him back now would ruin all that.
 
2. Most readers probably still think he's dead. It would seem cheap and tacky if he suddenly turns up again.
 
3. Having the Clegane v Clegane fight seems too neat and tidy for GRRM. He doesn't give us what we want or expect - for example we'll never see Reek getting revenge on Ramsay or Sam living up to his father's expectations. Too cliched and predictable.


2) There's some extremely heavy hinting that Sandor isn't dead in the gravedigger chapter- the only twist that has more clues is the undead Mountain being Ser Strong.

3) Reek was a minor unimportant character who basically doesn't matter in the long run. Sandor is probably the most explored/shown non POV character. As for Sam- he killed an Other, manipulated the Night's Watch into electing Jon and has learned to master his fears.
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2) There's some extremely heavy hinting that Sandor isn't dead in the gravedigger chapter- the only twist that has more clues is the undead Mountain being Ser Strong.

 

Which is easy to say as a reader of the forums. I didn't pick up on it first time and neither will a lot of casual readers.

 

3) Reek was a minor unimportant character who basically doesn't matter in the long run. Sandor is probably the most explored/shown non POV character. As for Sam- he killed an Other, manipulated the Night's Watch into electing Jon and has learned to master his fears.

 

I think you missed my point. In a standard fantasy film/book/story Reek (Theon) would ultimately get his revenge on Ramsay, Sam would eventually live up to his father's expectations and Sandor would defeat his brother in combat. These are the predictable, cliched ways to resolve those plotlines. But GRRM doesn't do cliched and predictable, which is why Cleganebowl will never happen.

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It's inevitable, it won't be for Cersei's trial, that's Ungregor's showpiece. Build him up so the earing down is all the more epic. It will be Sansa's trial and it will be a trial of seven.
 
I really have to wonder what people are thinking while reading certain passages. I mean look at this shit.

"Why would I lie?" she asked him. "Every place has its local heroes. Where I come from, the singers sing of Ser Galladon of Morne, the Perfect Knight."

"Ser Gallawho of What?" He snorted. "Never heard o' him. Why was he so bloody perfect?"

"Ser Galladon was a champion of such valor that the Maiden herself lost her heart to him. She gave him an enchanted sword as a token of her love. The Just Maid, it was called. No common sword could check her, nor any shield withstand her kiss. Ser Galladon bore the Just Maid proudly, but only thrice did he unsheathe her. He would not use the Maid against a mortal man, for she was so potent as to make any fight unfair."

Crabb thought that was hilarious. "The Perfect Knight? The Perfect Fool, he sounds like. What's the point o' having some magic sword if you don't bloody well use it?"

"Honor," she said. "The point is honor."

That only made him laugh the louder. "Ser Clarence Crabb would have wiped his hairy arse with your Perfect Knight, m'lady. If they'd ever have met, there'd be one more bloody head sitting on the shelf at the Whispers, you ask me. 'I should have used the magic sword,' it'd be saying to all the other heads. 'I should have used the bloody sword.'"

Brienne could not help but smile. "Perhaps," she allowed, "but Ser Galladon was no fool. Against a foe eight feet tall mounted on an aurochs, he might well have unsheathed the Just Maid. He used her once to slay a dragon, they say."

A perfect knight so loved by a maid she gives him a magic sword, a sword he is too honourable to use against a regular foe but he might just bust it out for an 8 foot tall mounted foe. Gee, I wonder what contemporary characters could play this little diddy out. What is going through the head of you Cleganebowl doubters when you read this passage, "What a nice little side story of no consequence"?
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I can see GRRM (who is they? He's a he) bring back Sandor just to kill him, he doesn't seem to br swayed by how popular a certain character is. If he was convinced that his story included Tyrion and/or Arya dying then he'd write their deaths as well. 

 

On a side note, every time I read "Cleganebowl" I go :rolleyes:  Who invented that incredibly stupid name?

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It's inevitable, it won't be for Cersei's trial, that's Ungregor's showpiece. Build him up so the earing down is all the more epic. It will be Sansa's trial and it will be a trial of seven.
 
I really have to wonder what people are thinking while reading certain passages. I mean look at this shit.
A perfect knight so loved by a maid she gives him a magic sword, a sword he is too honourable to use against a regular foe but he might just bust it out for an 8 foot tall mounted foe. Gee, I wonder what contemporary characters could play this little diddy out. What is going through the head of you Cleganebowl doubters when you read this passage, "What a nice little side story of no consequence"?

 

At the risk of appearing extremely thick: huh, what? :dunno:  How does that story confirm clegane bowl? The only character that seems to fit that description that I can think of is Brienne herself, if you change the he/she parts. Sandor does not have a magic sword, as I recall and if he did, he would have used it every time he could. 

 

I might be missing something here, but...?

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