Rhaegar Estellion Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Hi everybody, while reading I just stumpled upon this passage from Cercei III Feast: When all the vows were spoken, the king and his new queen stepped outside the sept to accept congratulations. "Westeros has two queens now, and the young one is as beautiful as the old one," boomed Lyle Crakehall, an oaf of a knight who oft reminded Cersei of her late and unlamented husband. She could have slapped him. I think it's a nice hint from GRRM that I just wanted to share with you, as I haven't seen it being brought up often in discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordahl iceskin Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Cersei seems to make all the wrong moves, and she believes the prophecy refers to Margaery. This fact alone is enough for me to think it is not Margaery and Cersei is wrong as usual. It could be referring to Sansa, who is technically her sister in law, or even Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edd fetch me the boo box Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Even though Lyle Crakehall seems like a decent guy, he is only one person. I'd imagine the YAMBQ would be widely accepted as more beautiful. And that doesn't take into account beauty on a metaphorical, inner beauty type of way, which I would say Margaery has Cersei beat there. Hell, almost everyone we've read about has Cersei beat there. Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywintersong Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Interesting idea. It seems to me that the simplest explanation is that he is being flattering. Kind of like, "you don't look a day over 39", but the woman in question is fifty, looks fifty, but still gets mad because she wants to look like she's in her twenties. I don't think she's the youner and more beautiful queen because Cersei worries she might be. And I pretty much always expect her to view thngs through a warped lens. Also, the acronyms on this board are out of control (not just you, op). I really had no idea what this thread was about at first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywintersong Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Cersei seems to make all the wrong moves, and she believes the prophecy refers to Margaery. This fact alone is enough for me to think it is not Margaery and Cersei is wrong as usual. It could be referring to Sansa, who is technically her sister in law, or even Dany. I've heard the name Arianne thrown out there, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mish Windage Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Inspired. Yams on a BBQ. Why don't I ever have great ideas like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It's just Crakehall trying to say something complementary but instead he makes an idiot out of himself. All the descriptions of Margaery say she is a stunner while Cersei is starting to sag and wrinkle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfgangII Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I agree with Nordhal iceskin and mywintersong, if Cersei beleives Maergary is the younger and most beautiful queen, she is certainly not. Now, if a remeber correctly, this young and beautiful queen must cast Cersei down, and Maergary does not have the power to overthrow the Queen Mother. She obviously want that, and the Tyrells are the force behind the Iron Throne, but Cersei got the Lannister gold and Ser Robert Strong. Also, I believe that the prophecy state that the younger and more beautiful queen will come after all of Cersei's children have died, which I'll say will not happen in a while. That's why I believe this younger and more beautiful queen must be a character that will come later on to the schemes of Westeros, maybe Sansa or Daenarys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md-shafty Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I agree with Nordhal iceskin and mywintersong, if Cersei beleives Maergary is the younger and most beautiful queen, she is certainly not. Now, if a remeber correctly, this young and beautiful queen must cast Cersei down, and Maergary does not have the power to overthrow the Queen Mother. She obviously want that, and the Tyrells are the force behind the Iron Throne, but Cersei got the Lannister gold and Ser Robert Strong. Also, I believe that the prophecy state that the younger and more beautiful queen will come after all of Cersei's children have died, which I'll say will not happen in a while. That's why I believe this younger and more beautiful queen must be a character that will come later on to the schemes of Westeros, maybe Sansa or Daenarys. Personally I would really like it to be Sansa to take down the mad queen. Daenary's is likely also. Be cool character development for Sansa to go from a child who wants to marry a king and be curteous obediant queen, only to then depise the idea of it all then have to step in, be queen and run the whole show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It really could be Sansa, Dany, or Arianne. What if Myrcella lives and it's her own daughter? :ack: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASOIAF_Ali Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 It's not Margaery I don't think. The prophecy says that the younger queen will cast Cersei down and take all that she holds dear, but Margaery hasn't actually cast her down and taken her out of power. All she's done is marry Tommen, but since Cersei is still queen regent, she technically has the power, not Margaery. I don't know what taking all that she holds dear means, but we know that Cersei cares a lot about her children, maybe it has something to do with them? Due to this, I'm thinking it might be Sansa, she certainly has the motive to want to take things from Cersei, but it could be Dany, or Arianne, they're going to be on different sides of the war to Cersei so would displace her for a certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Daegon Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 One thing I think we might be able to look at as a hint is actually from thoughts that Cersei herself has in her own chapters. Several times, as it happens. In particular it's when Cersei compares Jaime to Rhaegar, and thinks that even Jaime in his prime wasn't nearly as beautiful as Rhaegar. Interesting, that, with them being twins and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpiginsunspear Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 One thing I think we might be able to look at as a hint is actually from thoughts that Cersei herself has in her own chapters. Several times, as it happens. In particular it's when Cersei compares Jaime to Rhaegar, and thinks that even Jaime in his prime wasn't nearly as beautiful as Rhaegar. Interesting, that, with them being twins and all. Cersei also thinks Marge is not as beautiful as herself and most of her beauty is due to youth anyway. Could just be spiteful thinking. On a related note, I don't we have to be so literal, I doubt this prophecy will turn on who is technically more "beautiful" than Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Daegon Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Cersei also thinks Marge is not as beautiful as herself and most of her beauty is due to youth anyway. Could just be spiteful thinking. On a related note, I don't we have to be so literal, I doubt this prophecy will turn on who is technically more "beautiful" than Cersei. Yeah, she's spiteful in a lot of her thinking, but I find it interesting that she focuses so much on keeping Margaery from fulfilling that part of Maggy's prophesy, and yet she herself thinks about how Jaime, her twin and a man considered by many to be handsome and beautiful, is not as beautiful as Rhaegar was. Little does she know that Rhaegar's sister is alive and possesses dragons, is a ruling queen, and aspires to retake the Iron Throne back for her family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfgangII Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Yeah, she's spiteful in a lot of her thinking, but I find it interesting that she focuses so much on keeping Margaery from fulfilling that part of Maggy's prophesy, and yet she herself thinks about how Jaime, her twin and a man considered by many to be handsome and beautiful, is not as beautiful as Rhaegar was. Little does she know that Rhaegar's sister is alive and possesses dragons, is a ruling queen, and aspires to retake the Iron Throne back for her family. Yes, it certainly is interesting. Cersei look like Jaime and Daenarys looks like Rhaegar. But I'm must certain Cersei know Dany is alive. Everyone near Varys (i.e. King's court) knows Dany is alive. Your post made me think: What if the "more beautiful" is from Cersei's perception? She would see this younger queen as more beautiful than she ever was, it doesn't matter what other people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Daegon Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Yes, it certainly is interesting. Cersei look like Jaime and Daenarys looks like Rhaegar. But I'm must certain Cersei know Dany is alive. Everyone near Varys (i.e. King's court) knows Dany is alive. Your post made me think: What if the "more beautiful" is from Cersei's perception? She would see this younger queen as more beautiful than she ever was, it doesn't matter what other people think. Now I like the idea of it being someone from her own oppinion. As for Cersei knowing Dany is alive, yeah she does. However, Dany's existence isn't even an after thought for her, because no one knows that Dany is really a threat. Most people in Westeros, as of this point in the books, dismiss rumors of her dragons as just rumors. They're too focused on what's near at hand, the current instability of Westeros, not some misplaced child-queen half the world away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brranstaark Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I think the beautiful queen could be Cersei herself in some way. She seems to be her own worst enemy at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bastard Snow Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Arya Stark for sure. I mean that deathnote she has going is really working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 That was Joffrey's wedding, a long time ago (at least when emotional wear and tear is concerned). And even then, let's face it, that was the only thing Crakehall could conceivably say. Suggesting that either queen was "more beautiful" than the other would be unwise to the "jeopardizing your personal safety" level (atop of sounding like a dick). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 margaery isn't the younger more beautiful queen because she's barely just a character in her own right. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. i don't really think it matters much on who others find more attractive. and since this is cersei's prophecy, its only her eye for beauty that matters. and she's already indirectly admitted that dany is more beautiful than her by saying that rhaegar was more beautiful than jaime. hence giving further credibility that Dany is the YMBQ although i have to say its kind of gross to shame an older woman for....well....aging like some are doing in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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