JonCon's Red Beard Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Because the hypocritical dragon wannabe didn't find another worthy Lion to marry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Actually no the Starks have some alliances in the Vale from old marriages that they remembered and Ned making friends while being fostered. Have they? I don't recall seeing these Vale Lords fighting for Robb in the War of the Five Kings. Can you remind me what chapters these allies helped Ned and his children in the series? And the difference between the Lannisters, Martells, and Tyrells and that people actually tried making alliances with house Martell and Tyrell outside of their regions its always Tywin trying to make alliances and getting shut down. Notice Tywin getting shit down with offering Tyrion Hoster tried to marry his daughter to Jaime. House Martell tried to marry their children to the Lannister twins. As I have already mentioned, Margot Lannister is married to Lord Peake in the Reach, Tyrek is married to Lady Hayford in the Crownlands, Genna was married to a Frey, Cleos to a Darry and Daven was briefly betrothed to a Redwyne. And Tywin made an alliance with the King not house Baratheon you see how the Stormlanders are quick to jump to Renly and Stannis before Robert's "heirs" Some of the Stormlands,not all of it. We see Houses like the Carons stay neutral and send a son to serve Joffrey. Tywin does marriages he doesn't have any alliances. This is pretty deluded. He won the War of the five Kings thanks to alliances. The alliance he made after Roberts Rebellion eventually made his Grandsons Kings. Alliances have been a boon for House Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Pie Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I don't think there was a question of it; after having delivered 3 children, 2 of them males and a very pretty female which promises a prominent match, he was under no obligation to marry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Because the hypocritical dragon wannabe didn't find another worthy Lion to marry. Dragon wannabe? Tywin was obviously very proud of his house and name, thinking he wanted to be something else is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Dragon wannabe? Tywin was obviously very proud of his house and name, thinking he wanted to be something else is ludicrous. That's why he married his cousin and wanted his daughter married to a Targaryen? Guy wanted to be royalty. His friendship with Aerys was the closest thing he had to be such. That's why the whole "you're my servant" comment hit so hard: Aerys was his friend, he knew well where to strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Too much fun making whoopee at Chataya's. Why buy a cow when milk's cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Have they? I don't recall seeing these Vale Lords fighting for Robb in the War of the Five Kings. Can you remind me what chapters these allies helped Ned and his children in the series? Hoster tried to marry his daughter to Jaime. House Martell tried to marry their children to the Lannister twins. As I have already mentioned, Margot Lannister is married to Lord Peake in the Reach, Tyrek is married to Lady Hayford in the Crownlands, Genna was married to a Frey, Cleos to a Darry and Daven was briefly betrothed to a Redwyne. Some of the Stormlands,not all of it. We see Houses like the Carons stay neutral and send a son to serve Joffrey. This is pretty deluded. He won the War of the five Kings thanks to alliances. The alliance he made after Roberts Rebellion eventually made his Grandsons Kings. Alliances have been a boon for House Lannister. 1. Yeah actually they were pretty vocal about fighting for Robb the Arryns's most powerful t bannermen Royce was very vocal about it they just remained loyal to the crazed idiot Lysa who kept them out the war. They respected what their leige wanted so they didn't fight. 2. No it was Tywin who approached Hoster about marrying Jaime to Lysa(correct me when I'm wrong). And Tywin refused the marriages between the Martells than tried to give Tywin which they refused. He than goes to piss off both great houses in the future. 3. And yes neutral or any Baratheon but Robert's supposed heirs they didn't fight for Joffery at all though he's suppose to be a Baratheon. 4. I don't consider the house that murders your grandson/King right in front of you an alliance its a marriage that has gone to shit which has the Lannisters outnumbered 2 to 1 and left without any allies if the Tyrells decide to ditch them. Again house Lannister has no allies the other marriages you mentioned is not going to fight against their leiges. Tyrek is missing and he married a baby I doubt house Lannister running Hayford. Genna is married to the Freys who as a whole fought against the Lannisters until they did the RW now half their strength is in the North about to die out. Regardless of a marriage to Margot I doubt the Peaks are qn alliance that will help the Lannisters. Again House Lannister don't have alliances marriages yes but not alliances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 That's why he married his cousin and wanted his daughter married to a Targaryen? Guy wanted to be royalty. His friendship with Aerys was the closest thing he had to be such. That's why the whole "you're my servant" comment hit so hard: Aerys was his friend, he knew well where to strike. He wanted power and to be "the man". Do I really have to point out to you that cousin marriages aren't a Targaryen thing? Maybe if he had tried marrying Genna you would have a point. And wanting his grandchildren to be kings has nothing to do with being a Targaryen wannabe and I can't believe I have to point this out but...he helped destroy the Targaryen dynasty and married his daughter to Baratheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 That's why he married his cousin and wanted his daughter married to a Targaryen? Guy wanted to be royalty. His friendship with Aerys was the closest thing he had to be such. That's why the whole "you're my servant" comment hit so hard: Aerys was his friend, he knew well where to strike. Well him wanting to be royalty isn't quite the same as him wanting to be a Targaryen. He was very much proud to be a Lannister, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 That's why he married his cousin and wanted his daughter married to a Targaryen? Guy wanted to be royalty. His friendship with Aerys was the closest thing he had to be such. That's why the whole "you're my servant" comment hit so hard: Aerys was his friend, he knew well where to strike. I don't think Tywin wanted to be a Targ he's pretty obsessed with the Lannisters though I bet he would have preferred Rhaegar as a son in law rather than Robert. But that freak of a evil spawn he cursed Westeros with Cersei would have loved to be a Targ though black isn't her color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Well him wanting to be royalty isn't quite the same as him wanting to be a Targaryen. He was very much proud to be a Lannister, I think. I remember an old thread in which it was made a comparison for him imitating some Targ things. It's not like he wanted to be a Targaryen, I might have misspoke that. He wanted to be "one of them" in there power and arrogance. I am sure that, despite he really loved Joanna, some of that love was influenced by the fact that he thought that, just like the Targaryens, only a Lannister was worthy enough for a Lannister. And if not, then a Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Tyrell Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 It's simple: he's a hypocrite. He knew he'd only love one woman, and she was gone. So he resorted to whoring, and let his children try and continue the family name, when he could have gotten just about any bride he wished at that point to provide him with more heirs. Particularly after Jaime joins the Kingsguard, it really shows how incredibly hypocritical Tywin was not to secure another heir. If he played his cards right would be less than 10 years younger than Tyrion, the son he hates and wishes to disown. But he won't even consider sullying himself with another wife and it be someone he didn't love. Tywin is the single biggest hypocrite in the series, and he knows it, which is why he hates Tyrion. Tyrion embodies everything about himself that he tries to deny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Tyrell Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Tywin doesn't need more kids, and if he wants to make new alliances he can marry off his children/nieces/nephews. Actually, even in Tywin's mind, he really does need more heirs. I'm sure it didn't cross his mind until Jaime entered the Kingsguard, but from that moment onwards, he could have easily produced another heir besides Tyrion. He's actively denying Tyrion being the heir to Casterly Rock, and everyone who is in line after him is fairly incompetent to some degree. He needed another Jaime, so he needed to pop out more kids. The only reason he didn't get remarried is he's obsessed with the love of his first wife and refuses to even contemplate marrying someone out of duty and not love. He's a hypocrite of the highest order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I remember an old thread in which it was made a comparison for him imitating some Targ things. It's not like he wanted to be a Targaryen, I might have misspoke that. He wanted to be "one of them" in there power and arrogance. I am sure that, despite he really loved Joanna, some of that love was influenced by the fact that he thought that, just like the Targaryens, only a Lannister was worthy enough for a Lannister. And if not, then a Targaryen. Well I do think it's very possible that he wanted the Lannisters to be seen as great as the Targaryens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 1. Yeah actually they were pretty vocal about fighting for Robb the Arryns's most powerful t bannermen Royce was very vocal about it they just remained loyal to the crazed idiot Lysa who kept them out the war. They respected what their leige wanted so they didn't fight. So they did nothing. Infact another supposed ally, Lysa, was the one who made them do nothing. The Vale allies of the Starks did nothing for Robb. One of Royces sons served Renly but none served Robb. 2. No it was Tywin who approached Hoster about marrying Jaime to Lysa. And Tywin refused the marriages between the Martells than tried to give Tywin which they refused. He than goes to piss off both great houses in the future. So the fact that Tywin turned down the Martell marriages disproves your point that no Houses outside the West wanted to ally with the Lannisters. 3. And yes neutral or any Baratheon but Robert's supposed heirs they didn't fight for Joffery at all though he's suppose to be a Baratheon. Well they did at the Blackwater. But considering the majority of the Stormlands did not follow Robert during his Rebellion it is not that much of a surprise that they did not follow his children in the War of the Five Kings. 4. I don't consider the house that murders your grandson/King right in front of you an alliance its a marriage that has gone to shit which has the Lannisters outnumbered 2 to 1 and left without any allies if the Tyrells decide to ditch them. Of course it is an alliance. Without it there would be more than Joffrey dead. Thanks to that alliance someone with Lannister blood is still King. Again house Lannister has no allies the other marriages you mentioned is not going to fight against their leiges. Tyrek is missing and he married a baby I doubt house Lannister running Hayford. Genna is married to the Freys who as a whole fought against the Lannisters until they did the RW now half their strength is in the North about to die out. Regardless of a marriage to Margot I doubt the Peaks are qn alliance that will help the Lannisters. Your not really saying anything here. Again House Lannister don't have alliances marriages yes but not alliances. Yeah, they do. They won the war through their alliances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Tyrell Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I'm curious what would have happened if Tyrion had never been arrested/accused of regicide but Tywin had still kicked the bucket. Tyron had never been publicly disowned, so what if he pressed his claim? Cersei would obviously protest but Jaime would probably be supportive. What would Kevan think? I think Tywin was a bit more set on Jaime inheriting than you let on here. He clearly was holding out hope that Jaime would choose Casterly Rock over the white cloak even after their angry exchange in ASOS. Otherwise he would have named a new heir rather than leave the question open (a mistake in retrospect, since it allowed Cersei to grab the Rock) Tyrion was never his heir. He was stubborn enough to believe that Jaime would renounce the Kingsguard and take over Casterly Rock. But even if Jaime didn't take over Casterly Rock (which he didn't), I'm sure he had the proper documents to back up that Tyrion would not be his heir, and he certainly told Kevan of this. Kevan would not support Tyrion simply for the sake of his sons. If there's anything Tywin was competent in, it was screwing over Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Actually, even in Tywin's mind, he really does need more heirs. This is based on what? I am sure that, despite he really loved Joanna, some of that love was influenced by the fact that he thought that, just like the Targaryens, only a Lannister was worthy enough for a Lannister. And if not, then a Targaryen. Do you think Neds parents also wanted to be like the Lannisters as they too were cousins? And it is unknown whether Tywin arranged marriage to Joanna. It may have been Tytos, Jason or even Gerold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Tyrell Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 This is based on what? His hatred of Tyrion, obviously, and the fact that besides Kevan, the next competent person in line was Devan, who was way down the line. Giving Tyrion a younger brother who was semi-competent is clearly the way to go, but Tywin wouldn't consider it due to the fact that he refused to marry out of duty. He wanted to marry out of love, which he got incredibly lucky the first time around. If he produced a fairly competent child, then Tyrion is no longer a factor for him. He was just so stubborn that he thought Jaime would come around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 His hatred of Tyrion, obviously, and the fact that besides Kevan, the next competent person in line was Devan, who was way down the line. Giving Tyrion a younger brother who was semi-competent is clearly the way to go, but Tywin wouldn't consider it due to the fact that he refused to marry out of duty. He wanted to marry out of love, which he got incredibly lucky the first time around. If he produced a fairly competent child, then Tyrion is no longer a factor for him. He was just so stubborn that he thought Jaime would come around. No, what is this based on in the books. Not your own warped idea of what you think is happening. Use quotes, excerpts or even interviews from GRRM to back up this claim of yours that in Tywins mind he needs more heirs. If he felt he needed more heirs he would have remarried in the last 25 years. Since he has not then I'm not sure what you are basing your claim on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Blade Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Because the hypocritical dragon wannabe didn't find another worthy Lion to marry. this is actually pretty spot on, iIRCC he said "Does the lion mate with the sheep?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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