teemo Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'm having a debate with my friend. He says that Ned is one of the best swordsman in Westeros. Jaime got annoyed when Ned wasn't able to fight him in a duel, Barristan said he's great, and he slew Arthur Dayne. He also is 100% positive that Ned is the Knight of the Laughing Tree. I never considered this....opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I don't consider slaying Arthur Dayne in a 7v3 fight as being "great" when five of those seven die and Ned says Reed saved his life. Beyond Dayne name me a great victory he's won.He's a decent swordsman but nothing remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 That might be a noob question, but... who's Ned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'm having a debate with my friend. He says that Ned is one of the best swordsman in Westeros. Jaime got annoyed when Ned wasn't able to fight him in a duel, Barristan said he's great, and he slew Arthur Dayne. He also is 100% positive that Ned is the Knight of the Laughing Tree. I never considered this....opinions?The thing to remember here is that both Jaime and Barristan admired Arthur Dayne and knew that Ned defeated him. This would affect both Jaime and Barristan's estimation of Ned's abilities. We, however, know that Arthur would have defeated Ned if Howland hadn't intervened in some manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I don't recall Selmy ever saying that Ned was a particularly good fighter. Maybe someone could cite the passage? Jaime had nothing to prove as a fighter and it's doubtful that he fought for fun. In tourneys, yes, but other than that it was strictly business. If he wanted to fight Ned it's because he wanted Ned dead, which would have been the result of a fight between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfgangII Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 The thing to remember here is that both Jaime and Barristan admired Arthur Dayne and knew that Ned defeated him. This would affect both Jaime and Barristan's estimation of Ned's abilities. We, however, know that Arthur would have defeated Ned if Howland hadn't intervened in some manner.That is a good analysis. I don't think the tale of how Howland helped Ned to defeat Arthur is wide spread across Westeros. So, in Jaime's and Selmy's mind, Ned is the guy who defeated the best swordman in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Twin Stark Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 It very hard to say how good Ned is without knowing exactly what happened in the Tower of Joy, maybe Ned was great swordsman but the other 6 sucked, maybe Ned frighted in single combat for most of fight with Arthur Dayne(the best swordsman of Westeros), and so on, there are many possibility's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I agree with your friend. Everyone likes to bring up seven versus three, but what do we really know?The three were all members of the Kingsguard. Thus, it's reasonable to assume (because Cersei didn't name them) they were among the best warriors in Westeros.On the other hand, all we know of Ned's companions is that Howlen Rees was among them. He has been described as extremely slight and not particularly compelling as a warrior.The other five? For all we know, they were five red shirts from Star Trek. Or, think Jorri Cassell - not a bad sword, but no Randall Tarly. Their best contribution may have been that they were "merely present". Indeed, if they were warriors of note, their names would have been mentioned.Based on the actual facts, it's not unreasonable to conclude those five were slain in rather short order by the highly skilled KG's. Thus, in response to 7v3, I counter with 3v2. Plus, there is no way that Ned Stark didn't fight Arthur Dane one-on-one. The man was prepared to let Cersei flee the capital. There's no way his honor would have allowed for assistance - just look at the respect with which he addressed Selmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 One more thing: there is no way Ned Stark was not the KOTLT. The point of conveying the story to Bran was to emphasize Jojen and Meera's astonishment that Ned never told the story to anyone. They wouldn't appreciate it/understand why, but that makes a ton of sense. He's a humble/honorable guy who wouldn't brag about a good deed like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I don't recall Selmy ever saying that Ned was a particularly good fighter. Maybe someone could cite the passage? Jaime had nothing to prove as a fighter and it's doubtful that he fought for fun. In tourneys, yes, but other than that it was strictly business. If he wanted to fight Ned it's because he wanted Ned dead, which would have been the result of a fight between them.I'm pretty sure that was only in the TV Show and I don't think Jaime ever considered Ned a great fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md-shafty Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 No Ned was not a great swordsman. He was ok. George mentioned off books that Ned was decent, but Brandon was the better warrior of the family. Also Ned mentions Brandon as better as well.Ned and Rodrick got hammered in the winterfell practice yard by Royce when he was taking his son Waymar to the wall. So two on one they couldn't defeat an older warrior. Though Brohn Royce is supposed to be a beast.Ned and his men fought well against Jamies men, but not amazing or anything.So Ned was probably just average. He was far more accomplished as a commander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdw4950 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 ned was probably a good/above average swordsman when compared to his peers but theres no evidence that he was anything past that. if anything theres way more evidence that he was well below the elite/top level fighters in the series. robert was always regarded as the better fighter of the two during the rebellion, iirc ned mentions that brandon was a better swordsman than he was, theres a couple times during his time as hand where ned checks to see if the hound or jaime are present in tense situations (which gave me the impression that those two made him pretty nervous), we know that dayne wouldve killed him had howland not gotten involved and things like that. im sure there are a couple more but those are just off the top of my head.ned has been in plenty of battles and held his own so we have to assume that hes better than average but i would still say hes not even close to the top tier, or even second tier, fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickonKITN Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 ah man am I relieved I thought this was another thread about Ned 'beating' Jaime in the show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDireStark Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Ned wasn't in the Arthur Dayne or Barristan Selmy Class but he had to be above average to have made it thru the rebellion. You can't make it thru a year of war just being lucky,ecpecially when some of the best swordsmen were killed. I just think people underrate him because nothing is said about his swordplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great and Mighty Poo Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 ah man am I relieved I thought this was another thread about Ned 'beating' Jaime in the show I'll proprobably get murdered in my sleep for this but I like the shows fight scene better. If only the show made him(Jamie) less wroth and more arrogant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Ned wasn't in the Arthur Dayne or Barristan Selmy Class but he had to be above average to have made it thru the rebellion. You can't make it thru a year of war just being lucky,ecpecially when some of the best swordsmen were killed. I just think people underrate him because nothing is said about his swordplay.Surviving the war doesn't mean you're a great warrior, and yes, as per Barristan himself, luck has a lot to do with survival.OT: Ned was average for a lord, George himself said so. I really don't get why this is always put into question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic Cross Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Based on what we know I'd say Ned was an above average swordsman, who was at times capable of greatness. Don't forget that in the Tower of Joy he was fighting for his sister, which no doubt strengthened him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melx Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 ned was the best (ok maybe top 3 with Jaime & Barristan)how else to explain that he and 5 & 1/3 northerners can kill 3 super swordsmen,only other explanation is that Arthur Dayne was average skilled swordsmen or more likely: below average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-L Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I see people are making their own headcanon here. GRRM already stated Ned wasn't much a fighter, but more a battle commander. He (Ned) himself stated he would have been killed by Arthur Dayne if not for Howland Reed, I think it's enough to conclude it wasn't a fair fight if the fact they were 7v3 wasn't enough. Brandon was the fighter of House Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Velar Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 He was not the greatest swordsman and looking back at the books I never really got any prowess addressed when it came to his swordsmanship. I also would not categorize him as one the best either. More mediocre like. Not stating that he is awful but also not quite remarkable either. I suppose he could hold up when the need came but no. Nothing special Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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