The Heresy essays: X+Y=J- Howland + Lyanna=Jon

[corbon]

1.Its never made clear or should i say there's some ambiguity about who Rhaegar thought the three were.We know for sure at one point he thought he was TPTWP the Dragon must have three heads yada yada.Which means there were two who would flag him.

Then he says its not him and that it was his son Aegon but it was "us" who somehow came to conclusion that what Rhaegar was doing was fathering the 3 heads himself.He could have been,and he may not have been.He could have been trying to put together 3 people with Dragon blood.

That doesn't answer the point that its hardly likely he's looking for a Dragon/Prince as the offspring of a CotF linked Crannogman and a Stark.
Creative bullshit about Howland Reed having all sorts of blood ties to very special people and their very special dogs does not cut the mustard. The theory has to stand on what is written, not what people invent to support it.

[wolfmaid7]

That doesn't answer the point that its hardly likely he's looking for a Dragon/Prince as the offspring of a CotF linked Crannogman and a Stark.
Creative bullshit about Howland Reed having all sorts of blood ties to very special people and their very special dogs does not cut the mustard. The theory has to stand on what is written, not what people invent to support it.

I agree with your first point and your other point about creating an uber being.I'm very very glad you said that.

My main point is we have no clue because its not stated or implied how Rhaegar was putting this together. Siblings,kids etc.

[Lord Wraith]

I agree with your first point and your other point about creating an uber being.I'm very very glad you said that.

My main point is we have no clue because its not stated or implied how Rhaegar was putting this together. Siblings,kids etc.

Precisely. Apparently the Targaryen's have had this "prince that was promised" prophecy for awhile. Its not like we have heard the actual prophecy. Apparently the Pttwp has something to do with the return of dragons. We are still trying to figure out why the "dragon has three heads."

[Ygrain]

Kudos to corbon for reading it all, I did once and am unable to do so again. Suffice to say, I find this theory completely improbable. As for the actual whys, corbon basically broke it down. Sorry but just no.

[wolfmaid7]

 Precisely. Apparently the Targaryen's have had this "prince that was promised" prophecy for awhile. Its not like we have heard the actual prophecy. Apparently the Pttwp has something to do with the return of dragons. We are still trying to figure out why the "dragon has three heads."

@ Lord Wraith: So its a guess to exactly how Rhaegar was doing it. If we are going with the idea that he was ensuring that he was the sire of the heads then we have an issue because that would imply Dany is his.

Kudos to corbon for reading it all, I did once and am unable to do so again. Suffice to say, I find this theory completely improbable. As for the actual whys, corbon basically broke it down. Sorry but just no.

@ Ygrain:  I disagree if we look at its core its very probable we actually have Lyanna and Howland on page together and the OP is right the damsel in distress is a theme that has been used to spearhead romances for how long? The only difference is the gender roles have been switched something GRRM has done many times before.From Meera's story there's a hint,just a hint that Howland had a little bit of a torch.

Like i pointed out to Lord Wraith the assertion that Rhaegar for some reason has to be progenitor of the three heads is fan speculation based on nothing.Now it might be good to revisit Ned's conversation with Robert about rising against the Targs to stop the murder of children another look.

Is the theory a slam dunk? Not at all but its not improbable.

 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

@ Lord Wraith: So its a guess to exactly how Rhaegar was doing it. If we are going with the idea that he was ensuring that he was the sire of the heads then we have an issue because that would imply Dany is his.

How so? 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Which brings us to the million dollar question, what’s with the crown of blue winter roses?

The Crown of Blue Roses

It seems that the common assumption is that Rhaegar fell madly in love with the little tomboy and throwing caution to the wind procures a crown of blue winter roses, and crowns her in front of his father, his wife, and the lords of the realm.

But this scenario really doesn’t ring true for me. It certainly seems to go against Rhaegar’s nature, he was always a man that seemed more driven by duty, and prophecy then by emotion. Those around Rhaegar feared he was another Baelor the Blessed, a Targaryen king who went to great lengths not to be tempted by women. It also seems unusual that he would have chosen such a public forum to have made his intentions known. Why jeopardize his relationship with Elia whom he apparently believes is the mother of the Prince that was Promised? Why jeopardize his close relations with her Dornish contingent. Why antagonize Lyanna’s family? Why cast Aerys paranoid eye towards young Lyanna? Why make a romantic overture that is this public?

Perhaps the tale of the KOTLT gives us yet another clue. In the tale, Eddard is too shy to ask Ashara Dayne for a dance. So instead, his older, bolder brother Brandon asks Ashara for him. Is it possible that Rhaegar was giving Lyanna the crown on behalf of Howland? Was Rhaegar trying to facilitate Howland and Lyanna’s relationship? 

Why would he do this? Well it seems that there are two possible reasons. First as a purely cynical political ploy, Rhaegar could have seen fostering Lyanna and Howland’s relationship as a way to block the marriage alliance that Rickard Stark made with House Baratheon. 

Then we can’t discount the power that prophecy has in driving the narrative of our story. We know that Rhaegar seemed obsessed with prophecy, and believed that his son with Elia was the Prince that Was Promised. Did Rhaegar read or have a vision/prophecy which seemed fulfilled by a union between Lyanna and Howland? Do we know what made Howland leave the Isle of Faces and head towards Harrenhal in time to take part in the Whent’s (or Rhaegar’s) tourney? I’ll come back to this more at the end but is it possible that Rhaegar came to the realization that it was Lyanna and Howland’s union that would produce one of the three heads of his dragon?

Perhaps Rhaegar’s inner circle knew that Rhaegar was crowning Lyanna on behalf of Howland. This would explain why there is apparently no repercussions from Elia and her Dornish entourage (especially her brother) over Rhaegar’s actions. It would also explain why Connington never once thinks of Lyanna when he thinks about Rhaegar. 

Martin has has made subtle references in ASOIAF to the Roman cult of Mithras. One of the initiations into this cult involves placing a wreath of flowers from the tip of a sword on to the shoulder of the initiate. For this reason, I ‘ve toyed with the idea that the public display of the crown of winter roses might have been an invitation into Rhaegar’s inner circle or perhaps a signal to his inner circle as to the part that Lyanna is to play in their song of ice and fire

The reader is also warned early on that a knight handing a maiden a special rose is not always a romantic gesture. The example of Ser Loras and Sansa comes to mind. 

To the other maidens he had given white roses, but the one he plucked for her was red. “Sweet lady,” he said, “no victory is half so beautiful as you.” Sansa took the flower timidly, struck dumb by his gallantry. His hair was a mass of lazy brown curls, his eyes like liquid gold. She inhaled the sweet fragrance of the rose and sat clutching it long after Ser Loras had ridden off.

When Sansa finally looked up, a man was standing over her, staring. He was short, with a pointed beard and a silver streak in his hair, almost as old as her father…He had grey-green eyes that did not smile when his mouth did…The man wore a heavy cloak with a fur collar, fastened with a silver mockingbird, and he had the effortless manner of a high lord, but she did not know him…

“Your mother was my queen of beauty once,” the man said quietly…”You have her hair.” His fingers brushed against her cheek as he stroked one auburn lock.

Perhaps there is a clue here. The knight gives a rose to our maiden in what superficially appears to be a romantic gesture. But the knight in reality has no romantic interest in the maiden. On the other hand, Littlefinger, who like Howland is short of stature and a bit of an outsider, is the one who truly desires the maiden.

Finally, Martin at least in my mind is testing the reader. Can the reader identify that the tale of The Knight of the Laughing Tree depicts an actual basis for a romantic relationship between two persons of similar age, and similar beliefs, despite the fact that Howland is not what we are accustomed to as a love interest in a fantasy tale. Or does the reader follow the stereotype of a fantasy romantic figure, and assume that Lyanna falls in love with Rhaegar despite the fact that he is already married, soon to be the father of a second child, and despite the fact that there appears to be no personal interactions between the two.

The comparison between Loras's rose to Sansa and the crown of blue roses from Rhaegar to Lyanna is not a fairly judged one. The tale, as is written, does not give us a bunch of symbolism with red and white roses.. It does, however, for the blue winter rose (Bael the Bard). That symbolism shouldn't just be brushed aside and ignored because Loras gave Sansa a red rose whilst all the others received a white one, and Sansa interpreted that romantically.

So I'm interested to see how you'd work the blue rose into the scenario you describe.

 

Rhaegar giving the crown to Lyanna does not seem to have made Aerys paranoid towards Lyanna or the Starks. And clearly, angering the Dornish was not an issue for Rhaegar, as he did so, anyway.

 

Nor do I think it is logical to assume that Howland is the child of Duncan and Jenny. They got married in 239 AC, Howland was born around 260-265 AC, and Duncan died in 259 AC. Nor were Prince Duncan or Jenny a member of House Reed, so their child can't possibly have been a Reed of Greywater Watch.

A grandchild could potentially be possible, timeline wise, but I must say, there is nothing to assume that it is the case, with the current info that we have.

Nor would it be logical to assume that Rhaegar would ever believe that one of the heads of the dragon was someone without Targaryen-blood.

 

As to the comparison between LF and Howland... Unless you find something of a parallel between them, there's nothing there. Especially considering the fact that Sansa (whom you are paralllelling to Lyanna here), is not at all romantically interested in LF, which would mean, if we continue that parallel, that Lyanna won't have been romantically interested in Howland, either.

[Melifeather]

IMO Howland was the Knight of the Laughing Tree. He prayed to the old gods facing the Isle of Faces requesting their help to defeat the squires that shamed him. I'm all for women's rights, but simply on a basic human level a person who is humiliated would not feel vindicated if anybody else defended him other than himself, so for this reason I believe the KotLT was Howland, but that is not to say that there isn't an opening for Lyanna to have formed a bond with Howland. She chased off the squires the first go round and brought him into the Stark camp where Benjen found him some armor and Ned gave him a place in his tent. This was the beginning of friendship between Ned and Howland and maybe Lyanna too. This being said there must have been a purpose for Meera and Jojen to tell Bran the story, but I don't believe it was to shed light on Jon's parentage. The "moral" of the story if there is one to be drawn for Bran in particular is to show the powers of the old gods and green men. They made a knight out of Howland that day, and that's the gist that Bran got out of the story too.

[corbon]

IMO Howland was the Knight of the Laughing Tree. He prayed to the old gods facing the Isle of Faces requesting their help to defeat the squires that shamed him. I'm all for women's rights, but simply on a basic human level a person who is humiliated would not feel vindicated if anybody else defended him other than himself, so for this reason I believe the KotLT was Howland,

Vindication is not the aim though. The little crannogman does not need to be cleared of anything, no does he need to prove he is right or justified about anything.
The KotLT however was about honour. And the lack of it in the squires.

The little crannogman was offered the kit etc necessary to take his place. He didn't take it because he knew he didn't have the skills. If HR had had a change of mind after praying, he could still have used complete proper kit etc that fit him and had no reason not to.

but that is not to say that there isn't an opening for Lyanna to have formed a bond with Howland. She chased off the squires the first go round and brought him into the Stark camp where Benjen found him some armor and Ned gave him a place in his tent. This was the beginning of friendship between Ned and Howland and maybe Lyanna too. This being said there must have been a purpose for Meera and Jojen to tell Bran the story,

Not just a purpose, but a huge expectation that Ned had told this story to Bran before.
If Howland Reed is the KotLT then the whole story is a House Reed story with only the most peripheral Stark participation. There is no reason for the Reed kids to have such very high expectations that Bran had heard this story before, something they repeat three times through the tory because they just can't believe that he hadn't heard it before.

but I don't believe it was to shed light on Jon's parentage. The "moral" of the story if there is one to be drawn for Bran in particular is to show the powers of the old gods and green men. They made a knight out of Howland that day, and that's the gist that Bran got out of the story too.

Bran is a naive child who doesn't really get anything out of the story. He explains at the end how they told it all wrong and what should have happened. He certainly doesn't get anything out of it about old god powers and green men - he's all about knights and killing and winning and crowning.
"Oh." Bran thought about the tale awhile. "That was a good story. Bit it should have been the three bad knights who hurt him, not their squires. Then the little crannogman could have killed them all. The part about the ransoms was stupid. And the Mystery knight should win the tourney, defeating every challenger, and name the wolf maid the queen of love and beauty."
Its like there are a whole different set of words in your version...

[Melifeather]

Vindication is not the aim though. The little crannogman does not need to be cleared of anything, no does he need to prove he is right or justified about anything.
The KotLT however was about honour. And the lack of it in the squires.

The little crannogman was offered the kit etc necessary to take his place. He didn't take it because he knew he didn't have the skills. If HR had had a change of mind after praying, he could still have used complete proper kit etc that fit him and had no reason not to.

Not just a purpose, but a huge expectation that Ned had told this story to Bran before.
If Howland Reed is the KotLT then the whole story is a House Reed story with only the most peripheral Stark participation. There is no reason for the Reed kids to have such very high expectations that Bran had heard this story before, something they repeat three times through the tory because they just can't believe that he hadn't heard it before.

Bran is a naive child who doesn't really get anything out of the story. He explains at the end how they told it all wrong and what should have happened. He certainly doesn't get anything out of it about old god powers and green men - he's all about knights and killing and winning and crowning.
"Oh." Bran thought about the tale awhile. "That was a good story. Bit it should have been the three bad knights who hurt him, not their squires. Then the little crannogman could have killed them all. The part about the ransoms was stupid. And the Mystery knight should win the tourney, defeating every challenger, and name the wolf maid the queen of love and beauty."
Its like there are a whole different set of words in your version...

 

Yes, I guess I can see how you would think I have a whole different "set of words" when you are leaving all the relevant bits out. At the risk of derailing this thread...

Before telling the story Meera sets the stage a bit with this:

 

   “The lad knew the magics of the crannogs,” she continued, “but he wanted more. Our people seldom travel far from home, you know. We’re a small folk, and our ways seem queer to some, so the big people do not always treat us kindly. But this lad was bolder than most, and one day when he had grown to manhood he decided he would leave the crannogs and visit the Isle of Faces.”

 

Meera also mentions that the crannogman was brave, smart and he wanted to be a part of the tourney:

 

   The crannogman had never seen such pageantry, and knew he might never see the like again. Part of him wanted nothing so much as to be part of it.”

   Bran knew that feeling well enough. When he’d been little, all he had ever dreamed of was being a knight. But that had been before he fell and lost his legs.

 

Howland was angry and he vowed to take revenge:

 

   “None offered a name, but he marked their faces well so he could revenge himself upon them later. They shoved him down every time he tried to rise, and kicked him when he curled up on the ground.

 

At the feast he sees the squires and points them out to his Stark companions. Howland may be small, but he's just as proud as anyone else. Yes, he's afraid that he'll make a fool of himself, but he doesn't want anyone else to fight in his place. He prays to the old gods for a way to get revenge.

 

   “Amidst all this merriment, the little crannogman spied the three squires who’d attacked him. One served a pitchfork knight, one a porcupine, while the last attended a knight with two towers on his surcoat, a sigil all crannogmen know well.”

   “The Freys,” said Bran.

   “The Freys of the Crossing.” “Then, as now,” she agreed. “The wolf maid saw them too, and pointed them out to her brothers. ‘I could find you a horse, and some armor that might fit,’ the pup offered. The little crannogman thanked him, but gave no answer. His heart was torn. Crannogmen are smaller than most, but just as proud. The lad was no knight, no more than any of his people. We sit a boat more often than a horse, and our hands are made for oars, not lances. Much as he wished to have his vengeance, he feared he would only make a fool of himself and shame his people. The quiet wolf had offered the little crannogman a place in his tent that night, but before he slept he knelt on the lakeshore, looking across the water to where the Isle of Faces would be, and said a prayer to the old gods of north and Neck . . .”

 

The Knight of the Laughing Tree was short of stature and his sigil was a white weirwood with a laughing red face. Benjen gave Howland the miss-matched armor and the old gods gave him the power to win. Meera said, "Whoever he was, the old gods gave strength to his arm." 

And, "so the little crannogman’s prayer was answered . . . by the green men, or the old gods, or the children of the forest, who can say?”

Bran understood the story was about the power of the old gods, because he thinks:

 

    If the little crannogman could visit the Isle of Faces, maybe I could too. All the tales agreed that the green men had strange magic powers. Maybe they could help him walk again, even turn him into a knight. They turned the little crannogman into a knight, even if it was only for a day, he thought. A day would be enough.

 

 

[corbon]

 

Yes, I guess I can see how you would think I have a whole different "set of words" when you are leaving all the relevant bits out. At the risk of derailing this thread...

Not all the relevant bits. Not even many of them, since most you use are not exactly relevant and you ignore far more than I do. But you were right in part about Bran's takeaway, and I missed that bit, right at the very end of the story.

Meera also mentions that the crannogman was brave, smart and he wanted to be a part of the tourney:

Doesn't change that he already had an opportunity and didn't take it. And admitted to himself that he lacked the skills.
Nor that if he did change his mind and take it he had an offer off a proper set of armour about his size, not bits and pieces, ill-fitting.

 

Howland was angry and he vowed to take revenge:

Vengeance is not vindication.
He wanted vengeance, but was wise enough to know that he had not the skills.

And note that the Mystery Knight was not about Vengeance, but about Honour.

At the feast he sees the squires and points them out to his Stark companions. Howland may be small, but he's just as proud as anyone else. Yes, he's afraid that he'll make a fool of himself, but he doesn't want anyone else to fight in his place. He prays to the old gods for a way to get revenge.

It doesn't say what he prayed for. Nor is there any indication that he doesn't want anyone else to fight in his place. Sure, he'd prefer to do it himself, he's as proud as anyone else. But he recognises the futility of that and there is no indication he wouldn't accept other options.

The Knight of the Laughing Tree was short of stature and his sigil was a white weirwood with a laughing red face. Benjen gave Howland the miss-matched armor and the old gods gave him the power to win. Meera said, "Whoever he was, the old gods gave strength to his arm." 

Benjen's armour would be a proper set, not bits and pieces.
And we have not ever seen the Old Gods do anything as overt as overnight give major skills from nowhere. So interpreting that they did has no textual basis. Better to say that his prayers were answered by inspiring a champion for him, not by suddenly giving him l33t magicul skillz.

And in a story about a knight, whom everybody expects to be male and doesn't suggest otherwise, using masculine pro-nouns is not any sort of evidence.

Bran understood the story was about the power of the old gods, because he thinks:

 

 

Well, I missed that, you are right. But that describes what Bran thinks happened, not what Bran thinks the story is about - thats clear by his earlier preceding comment about how the story should have gone.
And Bran, as we see several times, completely misses the point of the story as well as not understanding what happened properly.

[SFDanny]

I hope I missed this in my read of the theory and in the responses to it. Where is it explained how Lyanna and Howland get together to conceive Jon some three months or so into the rebellion? We know Lyanna is last seen running off, voluntarily or not, with Rhaegar and they go into hiding from which no one can find them for many months. Ser Gerold finally does sometime after the Battle of the Bells. During this period, from "kidnapping" to Ser Gerold's arrival at the tower of joy, Howland is presumably part of the bannermen Ned travels north to assemble into a northern force of rebellion. Jon is conceived "eight or nine" months before the sack of King's Landing. Putting this conception around the time of the Battle of the Bells. So, just how do Howland and Lyanna get together across the lines of war, make a baby, and then go back to their respective places - all without anyone knowing?

Perhaps there is a special Greenman magic that allows for impregnating from thousands, or at least hundreds of leagues distance? The essay is very entertaining, and I love all the allusions to Beltane and inversion of gender roles, but to be taken seriously doesn't it have to actually work?

[wolfmaid7]

I hope I missed this in my read of the theory and in the responses to it. Where is it explained how Lyanna and Howland get together to conceive Jon some three months or so into the rebellion? We know Lyanna is last seen running off, voluntarily or not, with Rhaegar and they go into hiding from which no one can find them for many months. Ser Gerold finally does sometime after the Battle of the Bells. During this period, from "kidnapping" to Ser Gerold's arrival at the tower of joy, Howland is presumably part of the bannermen Ned travels north to assemble into a northern force of rebellion. Jon is conceived "eight or nine" months before the sack of King's Landing. Putting this conception around the time of the Battle of the Bells. So, just how do Howland and Lyanna get together across the lines of war, make a baby, and then go back to their respective places - all without anyone knowing?

Perhaps there is a special Greenman magic that allows for impregnating from thousands, or at least hundreds of leagues distance? The essay is very entertaining, and I love all the allusions to Beltane and inversion of gender roles, but to be taken seriously doesn't it have to actually work?

@ SFDanny: This is speculation though.This assertion that Jon was conceived "eight or nine" months before the sack wasn't thought out logically.So could Howland have impregnated her? Yes because this idea of when Jon was seeded and born was born from faulty reasoning.

[SFDanny]

@ SFDanny: This is speculation though.This assertion that Jon was conceived "eight or nine" months before the sack wasn't thought out logically.So could Howland have impregnated her? Yes because this idea of when Jon was seeded and born was born from faulty reasoning.

No, not faulty reasoning. No speculation. Straight from the author's mouth. Jon is said by Martin to be "eight or nine" months older than Daenerys, who is born "nine moons" after the flight from King's Landing. Daenerys is conceived in a brutal rape of Rhaella on the night Aerys burns his Hand for opposing the pyromancer plot. Jon is therefore conceived eight to nine months before that event. But I'm sure you know all this. A theory that doesn't take these basic facts into account, may be well written, allude to interesting motifs from other sources, propose new and interesting takes on things, but it can't be taken seriously without dealing with what seems to flat out rule it out as a possibility.

[Regular John Umber]

No, not faulty reasoning. No speculation. Straight from the author's mouth. Jon is said by Martin to be "eight or nine" months older than Daenerys, who is born "nine moons" after the flight from King's Landing. Daenerys is conceived in a brutal rape of Rhaella on the night Aerys burns his Hand for opposing the pyromancer plot. Jon is therefore conceived eight to nine months before that event. But I'm sure you know all this. A theory that doesn't take these basic facts into account, may be well written, allude to interesting motifs from other sources, propose new and interesting takes on things, but it can't be taken seriously without dealing with what seems to flat out rule it out as a possibility.

 The bold is speculative, isn't it?

[Lord Wraith]

No, not faulty reasoning. No speculation. Straight from the author's mouth. Jon is said by Martin to be "eight or nine" months older than Daenerys, who is born "nine moons" after the flight from King's Landing. Daenerys is conceived in a brutal rape of Rhaella on the night Aerys burns his Hand for opposing the pyromancer plot. Jon is therefore conceived eight to nine months before that event. But I'm sure you know all this. A theory that doesn't take these basic facts into account, may be well written, allude to interesting motifs from other sources, propose new and interesting takes on things, but it can't be taken seriously without dealing with what seems to flat out rule it out as a possibility.

Martin is actually quite evasive in his SSM on the topic.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1040

All of which is a long winded way of saying, no, Jon was not born "more than 1 year" before Dany... probably closer to eight or nine months or thereabouts.

Probably isn't certain.

 The bold is speculative, isn't it?

Pretty much.

[Regular John Umber]

Martin is actually quite evasive in his SSM on the topic.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1040

All of which is a long winded way of saying, no, Jon was not born "more than 1 year" before Dany... probably closer to eight or nine months or thereabouts.

 

 

 I've always believed that he says '8 or 9 months' because though he's not 100% on all his timelines, he connects Jon's birth with Danaerys's conception. In his mind, the timing of the two events is connected somehow.

[SFDanny]

 

 The bold is speculative, isn't it?

If I remember correctly at this time of night, no it is not. We are told by Jaime the two of them no longer have relations except when Aerys is aroused by burning people alive. Then we are given the rape in which we have some pretty graphic brutality described. And then Rhaella and Viserys is shipped off to Dragonstone. Nine moons later Daenerys is born. So, no speculation pretty much straightforward facts as set out in the books. One can imagine or speculate on secret lovers for Rhaella, or other fanciful readings, for which we have no evidence, but that's not what I'm doing. I'm using the information given us in the text.

[SFDanny]

Martin is actually quite evasive in his SSM on the topic.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1040

All of which is a long winded way of saying, no, Jon was not born "more than 1 year" before Dany... probably closer to eight or nine months or thereabouts.

Probably isn't certain.

Pretty much.

 

 

 I've always believed that he says '8 or 9 months' because though he's not 100% on all his timelines, he connects Jon's birth with Danaerys's conception. In his mind, the timing of the two events is connected somehow.

Martin sets forth a range, and the range is what is important. "Eight or nine months" is not exact, but gives us critical information. Given the basic facts one has to answer how a range that puts Jon's conception squarely within the time of the rebellion, and two people who are separated by that rebellion can result in those two being Jon's parents. It is fantasy, so it is possible we have Life of Brian spaceships transporting Howland back and forth from the Tower of Joy, but it is highly, highly unlikely. Ignoring the problem by saying we can do whatever we want with the timeline or by rewriting the books is even more unlikely.

[Melifeather]

Not all the relevant bits. Not even many of them, since most you use are not exactly relevant and you ignore far more than I do. But you were right in part about Bran's takeaway, and I missed that bit, right at the very end of the story.

Doesn't change that he already had an opportunity and didn't take it. And admitted to himself that he lacked the skills.
Nor that if he did change his mind and take it he had an offer off a proper set of armour about his size, not bits and pieces, ill-fitting.

Vengeance is not vindication.
He wanted vengeance, but was wise enough to know that he had not the skills.

And note that the Mystery Knight was not about Vengeance, but about Honour.

It doesn't say what he prayed for. Nor is there any indication that he doesn't want anyone else to fight in his place. Sure, he'd prefer to do it himself, he's as proud as anyone else. But he recognises the futility of that and there is no indication he wouldn't accept other options.

Benjen's armour would be a proper set, not bits and pieces.
And we have not ever seen the Old Gods do anything as overt as overnight give major skills from nowhere. So interpreting that they did has no textual basis. Better to say that his prayers were answered by inspiring a champion for him, not by suddenly giving him l33t magicul skillz.

And in a story about a knight, whom everybody expects to be male and doesn't suggest otherwise, using masculine pro-nouns is not any sort of evidence.

Well, I missed that, you are right. But that describes what Bran thinks happened, not what Bran thinks the story is about - thats clear by his earlier preceding comment about how the story should have gone.
And Bran, as we see several times, completely misses the point of the story as well as not understanding what happened properly.

What I've included is quite relevant and the whole point of Meera's telling of the story. Why would Meera and Jojen tell Bran a story about Lyanna? Their whole purpose is to collect Bran and bring him to Bloodraven, make him aware that his wolf dreams are warging, that Bran himself is a warg with a special purpose, and part of that purpose is the power of greenseers and the old gods. And you think this is a story about Lyanna dressed up as a mystery knight in order to teach Bran about honor???