Original Historical Non-Fiction

[Artimicia]

So, I've been really on a tear in recent times, mostly with wikipedia, reading through kind of real military histories of various kinds. Franco-Prussian war, Franco-Dutch War, Battle of Reims, Siege of Cantua, Battle of Kursk, and many others from various points in history.

It started off because I was trying to fill in the gaps in knowledge, like, ok, WWI happened, what was Greece doing the whole time? Where was Italy? It's been pretty fascinating simply on an informational level, and you learn strange things like a Bear was given private status in the Polish army during WWI, and transported ammo crates, or that the German army bombed their own side during an early celebration victory over France in WW2.

Plus, for whatever reason, a lot of it focuses on the fall of things, the fall of Napoleon, Waterloo, etc, but not so much about the conquests of Napoleon, or the importance of his commanders like Massena and Davout. Or more obscure things like the Battle of Mons Graupius, the Battle of Crete during WW2, and many other things that I can't quite remember.

Anyway, it's all been through wikipedia which has been kind of iffy at times, such as with bias like when I read about the French and British fighting during the 30 years war (or maybe it was the 7 years war), where the article goes "Fortunately, the French didn't X" as if to say, it was good that the British were winning and bad that the French weren't winning, etc.

As I went farther back in history, I realized the only major sources of information were pretty much the people who fought the battles themselves or someone really close to them. Moreover, they tended to ruminate on a wide range of topics, such as the contrasting ways of living and stuff of that nature.

Well at any rate, all that this is a long way of getting to this point, has anyone read some of the major non-sinopsis translated works like Augustus's Meditations, Caesar's Gallic wars, or stuff like that? It's amazing how many famous people in history wrote sort of their own interpretations and viewpoints down, and as I was reading them it was pretty fascinating to learn about the early histories of various places.

At the same time, I've never really sat down to read any of them, all my encounters with history were through the eyes of some historian or other for the most part.

I feel like there are many potential interesting ones.

It's just been stuff that's on my mind recently, I grew up reading the likes of Wheel of Time and/or Ender's Game, although I must confess GoT came to me only after seeing the show, but I think it's kind of an exciting new possibility to try something new like this and was wondering if anyone else already had.

I scanned the reccomendations for them, so I think it's ok to bring them up here.

 

[SeanF]

So, I've been really on a tear in recent times, mostly with wikipedia, reading through kind of real military histories of various kinds. Franco-Prussian war, Franco-Dutch War, Battle of Reims, Siege of Cantua, Battle of Kursk, and many others from various points in history.

It started off because I was trying to fill in the gaps in knowledge, like, ok, WWI happened, what was Greece doing the whole time? Where was Italy? It's been pretty fascinating simply on an informational level, and you learn strange things like a Bear was given private status in the Polish army during WWI, and transported ammo crates, or that the German army bombed their own side during an early celebration victory over France in WW2.

Plus, for whatever reason, a lot of it focuses on the fall of things, the fall of Napoleon, Waterloo, etc, but not so much about the conquests of Napoleon, or the importance of his commanders like Massena and Davout. Or more obscure things like the Battle of Mons Graupius, the Battle of Crete during WW2, and many other things that I can't quite remember.

Anyway, it's all been through wikipedia which has been kind of iffy at times, such as with bias like when I read about the French and British fighting during the 30 years war (or maybe it was the 7 years war), where the article goes "Fortunately, the French didn't X" as if to say, it was good that the British were winning and bad that the French weren't winning, etc.

As I went farther back in history, I realized the only major sources of information were pretty much the people who fought the battles themselves or someone really close to them. Moreover, they tended to ruminate on a wide range of topics, such as the contrasting ways of living and stuff of that nature.

Well at any rate, all that this is a long way of getting to this point, has anyone read some of the major non-sinopsis translated works like Augustus's Meditations, Caesar's Gallic wars, or stuff like that? It's amazing how many famous people in history wrote sort of their own interpretations and viewpoints down, and as I was reading them it was pretty fascinating to learn about the early histories of various places.

At the same time, I've never really sat down to read any of them, all my encounters with history were through the eyes of some historian or other for the most part.

I feel like there are many potential interesting ones.

It's just been stuff that's on my mind recently, I grew up reading the likes of Wheel of Time and/or Ender's Game, although I must confess GoT came to me only after seeing the show, but I think it's kind of an exciting new possibility to try something new like this and was wondering if anyone else already had.

I scanned the reccomendations for them, so I think it's ok to bring them up here.

The letters and speeches of Cicero give a very vivid of Rome in the last years of the Republic. But, they are very partisan.

It's a pity that the Autobiographies of Augustus and Sulla have been lost, as they would have been fascinating (albeit self-serving).

[Artimicia]

 

The letters and speeches of Cicero give a very vivid of Rome in the last years of the Republic. But, they are very partisan.

 

It's a pity that the Autobiographies of Augustus and Sulla have been lost, as they would have been fascinating (albeit self-serving).

Cicero's letters and speeches huh, sounds interesting. I hadn't come across Cicero yet, I imagine if these things are interesting to look back on, I'll end up trying to find more.

 

Honestly I think it would be amazing to read like something from ancient Gaul itself, such as on the practices of druidism, or the kinid of seeres and Alemanni society.

 

Thanks for the info =-)

[Zorral]

Grant's Memoirs -- both of the Mexican American War and the War of Southern Aggression, or as he called it, the war of rebellion.  He always understand both of them as wars of aggression and conquest.  The conquest part of the second one got blunted fairly quickly, thank goodness, which was when the forces of Jeff Davis began calling it the war of nothern aggression.

 

[Astromech]

I've been meaning to read both Polybius and Procopius for a while now. Polybius was at the sacking of Carthage during the Second Punic War and Procopius wrote about Byzantium  and Emperor Justinian's reign. You may enjoy Xenophon and Thucydides as well.

 

[Antonius Pius]

 

The letters and speeches of Cicero give a very vivid of Rome in the last years of the Republic. But, they are very partisan.

 

It's a pity that the Autobiographies of Augustus and Sulla have been lost, as they would have been fascinating (albeit self-serving).

A lot of Augustus' and Sulla's remains in Plutarch's Lives. The originals are lost to us, but Plutarch (and other authors) knew and used them. 

 

Cicero's letters and speeches huh, sounds interesting. I hadn't come across Cicero yet, I imagine if these things are interesting to look back on, I'll end up trying to find more.

 

Honestly I think it would be amazing to read like something from ancient Gaul itself, such as on the practices of druidism, or the kinid of seeres and Alemanni society.

 

Thanks for the info =-)

There's a lot of vitriol in those speeches, but also a lot of insight. Cicero's letters to Atticus are also available, which give his honest views to his friend, quite interesting.

We only know about druidism etc. through the Romans, who had a limited understanding and more often than not a propaganda-goal as well. 

 

Sallust's Catiline Conspiracy may be something for you, though it doesn't really involve war like Caesar does, it's a good, short history of turmoil and insurrection in Rome. Usually available with The Jugurthine War. (Sallust was an "ally" of Caesar in the Civil War, so was very much in the know).

 

I've been meaning to read both Polybius and Procopius for a while now. Polybius was at the sacking of Carthage during the Second Punic War and Procopius wrote about Byzantium  and Emperor Justinian's reign. You may enjoy Xenophon and Thucydides as well.

 

Procopius had something to say about Theodora too...

 

Further recommendations:

Polybius is a great read (was present in the circle of Scipio Aemilianus, where he had acces to the stories and inside information of the elder Scipiones, Africanus' constant friend and second G. Laelius was still alive in the beginning of Polybius' Roman exile), Livius fun and instructive about Roman ideology. Josephus' Jewish War was a great read as well.

[SeanF]

A lot of Augustus' and Sulla's remains in Plutarch's Lives. The originals are lost to us, but Plutarch (and other authors) knew and used them. 

 

There's a lot of vitriol in those speeches, but also a lot of insight. Cicero's letters to Atticus are also available, which give his honest views to his friend, quite interesting.

We only know about druidism etc. through the Romans, who had a limited understanding and more often than not a propaganda-goal as well. 

 

Sallust's Catiline Conspiracy may be something for you, though it doesn't really involve war like Caesar does, it's a good, short history of turmoil and insurrection in Rome. Usually available with The Jugurthine War. (Sallust was an "ally" of Caesar in the Civil War, so was very much in the know).

 

Procopius had something to say about Theodora too...

 

Further recommendations:

Polybius is a great read (was present in the circle of Scipio Aemilianus, where he had acces to the stories and inside information of the elder Scipiones, Africanus' constant friend and second G. Laelius was still alive in the beginning of Polybius' Roman exile), Livius fun and instructive about Roman ideology. Josephus' Jewish War was a great read as well.

I think that the description of the young Princess Rhaenyra in the Testimony of Mushroom (in The Rogue Prince) is modelled on Procopius' account of Theodora's early years.

[Jo498]

There is a lot of that stuff, most of which were the texts students were tortured with in Latin (or Greek) class until a few decades ago.

Herodotus for the Persian wars (as well as lots of semi-mythical anecdotes and yarns)

Thucydides for the Athens - Spartan wars

Plutarch and Cornelius Nepos for biographies of famous politicians and generals

Tacitus about the ancient Germans (although to be taken with loads of salt as he was more interested in criticising what he perceived as decadence among the Romans) and the 1st century Roman emperors (Annals and Histories)

[Antonius Pius]

I think that the description of the young Princess Rhaenyra in the Testimony of Mushroom (in The Rogue Prince) is modelled on Procopius' account of Theodora's early years.

Yes, I remember thinking that too!  Good catch, I'd already forgotten about it.

[Artimicia]

Grant's Memoirs -- both of the Mexican American War and the War of Southern Aggression, or as he called it, the war of rebellion.  He always understand both of them as wars of aggression and conquest.  The conquest part of the second one got blunted fairly quickly, thank goodness, which was when the forces of Jeff Davis began calling it the war of nothern aggression.

 

 

I've been meaning to read both Polybius and Procopius for a while now. Polybius was at the sacking of Carthage during the Second Punic War and Procopius wrote about Byzantium  and Emperor Justinian's reign. You may enjoy Xenophon and Thucydides as well.

 

 

A lot of Augustus' and Sulla's remains in Plutarch's Lives. The originals are lost to us, but Plutarch (and other authors) knew and used them. 

 

There's a lot of vitriol in those speeches, but also a lot of insight. Cicero's letters to Atticus are also available, which give his honest views to his friend, quite interesting.

We only know about druidism etc. through the Romans, who had a limited understanding and more often than not a propaganda-goal as well. 

 

Sallust's Catiline Conspiracy may be something for you, though it doesn't really involve war like Caesar does, it's a good, short history of turmoil and insurrection in Rome. Usually available with The Jugurthine War. (Sallust was an "ally" of Caesar in the Civil War, so was very much in the know).

 

Procopius had something to say about Theodora too...

 

Further recommendations:

Polybius is a great read (was present in the circle of Scipio Aemilianus, where he had acces to the stories and inside information of the elder Scipiones, Africanus' constant friend and second G. Laelius was still alive in the beginning of Polybius' Roman exile), Livius fun and instructive about Roman ideology. Josephus' Jewish War was a great read as well.

 

I think that the description of the young Princess Rhaenyra in the Testimony of Mushroom (in The Rogue Prince) is modelled on Procopius' account of Theodora's early years.

 

There is a lot of that stuff, most of which were the texts students were tortured with in Latin (or Greek) class until a few decades ago.

Herodotus for the Persian wars (as well as lots of semi-mythical anecdotes and yarns)

Thucydides for the Athens - Spartan wars

Plutarch and Cornelius Nepos for biographies of famous politicians and generals

Tacitus about the ancient Germans (although to be taken with loads of salt as he was more interested in criticising what he perceived as decadence among the Romans) and the 1st century Roman emperors (Annals and Histories)

Thanks for more notes people, I was never tortured in the classics myself, I cdid get a chance to not stand the straight literary classics like the Illiad or Macbeth or something, but reading things not from the point of view of historians or famous authors but simply the people who were essentially were the players in the play has been quite illuminating.

It's been fascinating to learn for example that (at least from the perspective of the Greco-Romans) early Germanic peoples (and apparently they're subsequent mythology) was actually not really drenched in sex per-se, violence yes, but not sex. In general, it seems like there was a much bigger division in cultural attitudes between northern and southern Europe than I ever imagined. I think that might of been Tacitus or Dio or something can't remember for sure.

As for other areas like the Civil War, I can't say I've been reading too much American history, but if I was Grant's memoirs is the first kind of place I'd want to start. It's been much more interesting than all the other methods.

I tend to shrug off the bias elements personally, for one at times it may be the only source available, like the Roman's commentaries on the Caledonians of Scotland is pretty much the only information anywhere on the Caledonians anywhere, and secondly well any more or less biased than the typicla historian or author? I'm not dismissing it outright but I guess it's just not really unique to these kinds of accounts. In fact, one of the problems I had was in wikipedia you would ocassionally read about like some French-Britain battle in the 7 years war and it would state "Fortunately, the French" like didn't have a crushing victory, and I was like wait what? O_o, I didn't know this wikipedia article favored the British.....

 

 

 

[Jo498]

There is of course some overlap between participants and authors/historian. Obviously with Julius Caesar and Cicero, but Thucydides and Xenophon (and maybe a few others) also fought or commanded armies in some of the campaigns they described.

[Artimicia]

There is of course some overlap between participants and authors/historian. Obviously with Julius Caesar and Cicero, but Thucydides and Xenophon (and maybe a few others) also fought or commanded armies in some of the campaigns they described.

True enough, kind of makes them all the more fascinating in a sense =-)

[Aldric]

I didn't want to res an old-ish thread, but the sticky here said it was better than making a new topic, so I figured I would ask here first. 

I'm looking for some good historical nonfiction books that deal with a few specific subjects if anyone has recommendations. 

 

Firstly, I'm into anything that has a focus on the air combat of WWI or WWII. Preferably focusing on fighter pilots, but I am also interested in bombers and ground attack fliers as well. The use of submarines in the world wars is also something I find fascinating and would be happy with any recommendations regarding them, as well. 

Secondly, some nonfiction books that deal with naval combat of the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars. I'm a big fan of this period of naval warfare with its combination of broadside volleys, ship-to-ship marine sharpshooters and boarding melee combat and figures like Nelson and the Royal Navy of the time. Anything focusing on these or similar things would be greatly appreciated. 

Finally, if anyone knows of any books that focus heavily on the use of cavalry in the middle ages (early, high or late) from any of the various Kingdoms or nations of the time period, I would love to read them. I have a keen interest in cavalry tactics and battles from the pre-firearm dominant periods mostly (though the use of heavy lancers like the Polish Hussars despite the introduction and mass use of firearms is fascinating too!) and would love to read anything that talks about the combat and/or experiences of cavalrymen or cavalry commanders in the middle ages from any region or Kingdom of the time (though admittedly I am most interested in Europe and the Eurasian Steppe) if anyone knows of something that might fit this niche. 

Thanks in advance for anyone that might be able to help with any of these requests. 

[SeanF]

15 minutes ago, Aldric said:

I didn't want to res an old-ish thread, but the sticky here said it was better than making a new topic, so I figured I would ask here first. 

I'm looking for some good historical nonfiction books that deal with a few specific subjects if anyone has recommendations. 

 

Firstly, I'm into anything that has a focus on the air combat of WWI or WWII. Preferably focusing on fighter pilots, but I am also interested in bombers and ground attack fliers as well. The use of submarines in the world wars is also something I find fascinating and would be happy with any recommendations regarding them, as well. 

Secondly, some nonfiction books that deal with naval combat of the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars. I'm a big fan of this period of naval warfare with its combination of broadside volleys, ship-to-ship marine sharpshooters and boarding melee combat and figures like Nelson and the Royal Navy of the time. Anything focusing on these or similar things would be greatly appreciated. 

Finally, if anyone knows of any books that focus heavily on the use of cavalry in the middle ages (early, high or late) from any of the various Kingdoms or nations of the time period, I would love to read them. I have a keen interest in cavalry tactics and battles from the pre-firearm dominant periods mostly (though the use of heavy lancers like the Polish Hussars despite the introduction and mass use of firearms is fascinating too!) and would love to read anything that talks about the combat and/or experiences of cavalrymen or cavalry commanders in the middle ages from any region or Kingdom of the time (though admittedly I am most interested in Europe and the Eurasian Steppe) if anyone knows of something that might fit this niche. 

Thanks in advance for anyone that might be able to help with any of these requests. 

For naval history during the Napoleonic/Revolutionary wars, I don't think you can do better than the second volume of N. A. M. Roger's History of the Royal Navy.

I can't think off-hand of any book that deals only with medieval cavalry, but Jonathan Sumption's history of the Hundred Years War deals extensively with military tactics.

 

[Aldric]

4 hours ago, SeanF said:

For naval history during the Napoleonic/Revolutionary wars, I don't think you can do better than the second volume of N. A. M. Roger's History of the Royal Navy.

I can't think off-hand of any book that deals only with medieval cavalry, but Jonathan Sumption's history of the Hundred Years War deals extensively with military tactics.

 

Thank you! I will look into both of these. It's very much appreciated by!