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Bloodraven protector of the realm


King17

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Hands of the King Robar Baratheon was named "Protector of the Realm" when tJaehaerys I was in his minority until he came of age, and it could be argued that the Hand of the King, BR, was named "Protector of the Realm" until the Great Council chose a king given someone needed to be Commander-in-Chief for the time being. 

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He doesn't have to have held that particular title. That seems to be restricted to the King and the regent(s) if there is a king and he is in his minority. Queen Regnants like Rhaenyra also chose not to style themselves that way (she allowed Daemon that title) and a non-martial king king like Daeron II gave that title to his son and heir Baelor who also served as Hand.

But Maekar was a very martial king he most certainly would have held the title of Protector of the Realm himself. In the wake of his death Bloodraven could not just have claimed that title.

Being the Hand would have been enough for Bloodraven to run the Realm in the king's name since the Hand speaks with the King's Voice if the king is incapacitated, and we have heard that the Hand is pretty much taking on all the royal authority during an interregnum since Ser Otto Hightower claims that Viserys I charged him with 'ruling the Realm until such time as the new king is crowned'. Bloodraven certainly would have been well within his authority to call a Great Council to prevent a war of succession.

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He doesn't have to have held that particular title. That seems to be restricted to the King and the regent(s) if there is a king and he is in his minority. Queen Regnants like Rhaenyra also chose not to style themselves that way (she allowed Daemon that title) and a non-martial king king like Daeron II gave that title to his son and heir Baelor who also served as Hand.

But Maekar was a very martial king he most certainly would have held the title of Protector of the Realm himself. In the wake of his death Bloodraven could not just have claimed that title.

Being the Hand would have been enough for Bloodraven to run the Realm in the king's name since the Hand speaks with the King's Voice if the king is incapacitated, and we have heard that the Hand is pretty much taking on all the royal authority during an interregnum since Ser Otto Hightower claims that Viserys I charged him with 'ruling the Realm until such time as the new king is crowned'. Bloodraven certainly would have been well within his authority to call a Great Council to prevent a war of succession.

Someone would still need to be in Commander-in-Chief in the event of a rebellion or invasion, which is what Protector of the Realm is. Aemond took the title when the current king, Aegon II, was incapacitated, and I think there is enough support for BR to have taken that title until the Great Council made its decision. No one else was like to oppose him taking that title. 

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The title is the monarch's to give or take, as far as we know. Ned is only made Protector of the Realm when Robert names him Lord Regent in his last will.

All the other Lord Protectors we know of were appointed by the people actually in charge. Queen Regent Alyssa Velaryon made Robar Baratheon Protector and Hand, Rhaenyra named Prince Daemon Protector, Aemond was named Prince Regent and Protector while Aegon II was incapacitated (either by Aegon II himself during one of his lucid moments, or by decree of the Small Council), and Littlefinger is named Lord Protector of the Vale by Lysa.

The Hand does not necessarily need this title during a crisis, though. It is part of the job description - at least since the reign of Viserys I - that the Hand speaks with the King's Voice, sits on the Iron Throne in his absence, and rules in place of the king until a new king is crowned. The Hand does not need the title of Lord Protector to execute all the royal authority. If there was a rebellion or something the Hand could just as act the Hand - him acting as the Protector of the Realm wouldn't necessarily give him greater authority or additional powers.

It isn't even clear whether the Protector is actually above the Hand in a Regency scenario where the or a regent isn't also Lord Protector. During the Regency of Aegon III there was the Regency Council of seven regents but the Protector of the Realm (Leowyn Corbray) and the Hand were (Tyland Lannister) weren't part of the Regency Council.

Bloodraven could just continue ruling as Hand in Maekar's place while there was neither a new king, nor a regent, nor a Protector of the Realm. He was still alive, and he held the office which allowed him to rule in place of the king while there was no king.

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The title is the monarch's to give or take, as far as we know. Ned is only made Protector of the Realm when Robert names him Lord Regent in his last will.

All the other Lord Protectors we know of were appointed by the people actually in charge. Queen Regent Alyssa Velaryon made Robar Baratheon Protector and Hand, Rhaenyra named Prince Daemon Protector, Aemond was named Prince Regent and Protector while Aegon II was incapacitated (either by Aegon II himself during one of his lucid moments, or by decree of the Small Council),

That fallacy is called "begging the question". You assume that PoR can only be appointed, and hence conclude that Aemond was appointed PoR, and now the "fact" that he was appointed further proves the rule. The text, however, states that "Aemond took up the mantle of Protector of the Realm and Prince Regent after both Aegon II and Sunfyre were gravely injured at Rook's Rest in the battle with Rhaenys and Meleys". And if Aemond could have, then Bloodraven could have just as well.

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Well, we know that the Regency cannot pass to anyone without the approval of either the Hand or the Small Council if the king is incapacitated. The Small Council names and confirms Cersei Lannister as Queen Regent and names her to their ranks after her coup, and prior to that Ned Stark tried to have the Small Council confirm him in his role as Lord Regent and Protector of the Realm, suggesting that he cannot hold those offices without the approval of the Small Council.

After Cersei's incarceration it falls again to the Small Council to name a new regent, and the Tyrells don't contest that right despite the fact that their men are in the city long before Kevan arrives there.

When Aegon II was injured, he still had a Hand and a Small Council and Prince didn't hold any office. Sure, it may be that Aemond Targaryen proclaimed himself Prince Regent and Protector of the Realm without the approval and/or against the will of Ser Criston Cole, the Hand, Ironrod Wylde, Ser Tyland Lannister, Lord Larys Strong, and his own mother, the Dowager Queen - but the text states nothing of this sort.

In fact, if you check the more detailed account by Gyldayn in TPatQ then it becomes quite clear that Prince Aemond was made Prince Regent and Protector of the Realm by the urging of Ser Criston Cole. He said to him, according to Gyldayn: 'You must rule the Realm now, until your brother is strong enough to take the crown again.' That makes it clear that Criston Cole was the one putting Aemond in charge. Prior to that, power seems to have resided with Alicent and Cole since they were the only ones allowed to call upon Aegon II in his chambers, and thus the only ones who could rely the king's commands and/or make up royal commands that suited them.

But even if you were right above, and even if Bloodraven styled himself Protector of the Realm, then his case and Aemond's aren't really comparable because Aemond wasn't holding any office whereas Bloodraven was the effective ruler of the Realm upon Maekar's death. Bloodraven would have a much easier way to gain the title/office of Lord Protector of the Realm whereas Aemond could only have seized it via a coup if it hadn't been offered to him by Criston Cole. Hell, Bloodraven could even have put forth his own claim to the throne at the Great Council (as a legitimized son of Aegon IV) or he could have seized the crown for himself considering that he was in charge of the Realm already. The fact that he did neither doesn't suggest to me that he wanted to give the impression that he wanted to appear power-hungry by granting additional titles to himself. The Great Council could only have a chance to be a success if the Lords actually believed that the claimants (or at least the guy presiding over it) were sincere in their attempt to settle the succession peacefully.

But I never said that Bloodraven couldn't have possibly styled himself Lord Protector of the Realm. I just said he it is very unlikely that he did so, and we have no reason to believe that this was the case. If Maekar's Small Council felt that Bloodraven should have that title until the Great Council was over, then he could have had it, of course. I just don't think he bothered with that kind of thing.

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In fact, if you check the more detailed account by Gyldayn in TPatQ then it becomes quite clear that Prince Aemond was made Prince Regent and Protector of the Realm by the urging of Ser Criston Cole. He said to him, according to Gyldayn: 'You must rule the Realm now, until your brother is strong enough to take the crown again.' That makes it clear that Criston Cole was the one putting Aemond in charge.

Yes, Prince Aemond had the support of Hand of the King, Ser Criston Cole. Here we're operating on an assumption that Lord Bloodraven had the support of Hand of the King, Lord Bloodraven. Crazy as it might sound.

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Yeah, well, but Aegon II was in need of a regency government during the time of his incapacitation. Nothing suggests that Westeros needed an 'interregnum king' styling himself Protector of the Realm (or Lord Regent) during the time of the Great Council.

The Greens needed a martial figurehead during the Dance in the wake of Aegon's injuries. Bloodraven needed nothing of this sort for his own cause. He could continue to rule in the late Maekar's name until such time as a new king was crowned. Otto Hightower also did not style himself Lord Protector of the Realm during the days and weeks in preparation for the coronation of Aegon II.

Until we know that Bloodraven and Maekar's council wanted to grant Bloodraven additional titles after Maekar's death I'm not running around considering that a very interesting or convincing possibility. It is not impossible, of course, but not very likely. Especially since the whole succession war thing at the death of Maekar makes it rather likely that Maekar's Small Council wasn't exactly a unified body but rather torn between the various claimants to the throne. That wouldn't make it very likely that Bloodraven could just grant more power to himself all day.

In comparison, the question of Tommen's new regent may also be postponed indefinitely because Mace Tyrell doesn't actually have to make himself the new Lord Regent, he could just continue to rule the name in Tommen's name as his Hand since he already speaks with the King's Voice in that capacity (although I think Mace is just too fond of titles to not jump on the chance to style himself both Lord Regent and Protector of the Realm as well as Hand).

In the absence of a king, the Hand effectively becomes the king. This means that the power of the Hand is much more restricted if there is a king or (a) regent(s) but greatly enlarged if both a missing. Which means that a good strategy to remain in power if you are the Hand would be not 

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