The Targaryen Recessive Gene "Condition"

[Isobel Harper]

What I propose is that Targaryens have a condition which causes their recessive genes to act dominant.  In addition to providing examples, I will also discuss the implications of such a condition.  I believe the Condition is somewhat similar to albinism or leucism.  It is a genetic condition which causes lack or partial lack of pigmentation and (like condition like albinism and leucism) can affect other parts of the body not connected to pigmentation.  Targaryen madness (if it exists at all, but that's another discussion) could be a side affect, for example.  It might also effect or even cause dragon riding, as I discuss below. 

We have (at least) two examples where recessive features act dominant in the Targaryen family: Maekar I and Jaehaerys II.  Maekar's mother was a Martell, and Jaehaerys' mother was a dark-featured Blackwood.  Yet both men had silver hair and purple eyes, features which should be recessive. 

Baratheon blue-eyes are another example of recessive genes acting dominant.  As we discover in AGoT, Baratheon blue eyes (and black hair, which is a dominant trait anyway) appears to be dominant to Lannister green.  Since the blue eyes are still present in the current line of Baratheon's in the series, we can assume that the blue eyes have never been "dominated" by any other eye colors throughout the Baratheon line.  One possible reason for this "blue-eyed dominance" is the Condition which the Baratheons inherited from their half-Targaryen ancestor, Orys Baratheon.

Baratheon is not the only family which is affected partially by the Condition.  Partial affection of the Condition is also present in Targaryens.  Elaena Targaryen had silver hair with a golden streak, and Valarr Targaryen had brown hair with a silver streak, features which hint at incomplete expression of the Condition.

Bloodraven and his albinism are also possible evidence of the Condition.  It is unknown if Bloodraven could have been a dragon rider.  However, he is a powerful warg, the most powerful warg (other than Bran?) in the series.  I believe that the extent of his power is due to his albinism.  Warging, like dragon riding (if they are separate traits; some theorize that they are more or less the same), is a recessive trait, hence warging not being present in but a fraction of society.  By being an albino (likely via the Condition which BR inherited from Aegon IV), BR was able to be such a powerful warg.

Under the context of this Condition, there are several implications that could effect characters and/or fan theories.

First, it leads credence to the possibility that Rhaenyra's children could in fact be the sons of Laenor Velaryon.  Rhaenyra's mother was Aemma Arryn and her grandfather, Rodrik Arryn.  Either could have given Rhaenyra the brown-haired and brown-eyed genes that her sons would later exhibit physically.  That is, Rhaenyra carried the dark-featured genes, but did not exhibit them due to the Condition.  Rhaenyra passed on these darker-featured genes to Jac, Luc, and Joff, but failed to pass on the Condition, hence their darker features.

In regards to theories that Tyrion is the son of Aerys and Joanna or a chimeric twin of such a union, we have Tyrion's black eye as evidence.  Jaehaerys II and Aerys II could have carried the black-eyed gene(s) from Betha Blackwood.  Both had the Condition and, therefore, purple eyes.  Aerys, however, failed to pass on the Condition to Tyrion (or his chimeric twin), which resulted in Tyrion having only one black eye.

Thoughts?

ETA:  Fun fact.  Chediak-Higashi syndrome is a condition which causes partial albinism.  People affected by this condition typically have light skin and silvery hair. 

[Armstark]

Interesting to think about the genetics of Westeros and there has been a lot of talk about it lately. One think seems clear: there are some families that have "special" genes or a "condition" as you call it. 

But the easiest explanation for the Targaryen hair and eye colors is that there are not recessive at all in this World. The Daynes for example have similar features and don't seem to lose them either. As do the people of Lys.

Regarding Rhaenyra's children I like to point out that Aemma Arryn was half Targaryen herself. So of the six direct ancestors of Rhaenyra only one (Rodrik Arryn) did not have "the blood of the dragon".

The blue eyes of the Baratheons come from the Durrandons as Orys had black eyes (the black hair most likely is from the Durrandons as well) so I don't know how that fits in your theory. The Baratheon retain the Durrandon features because of the Targaryen condition?

[sarah.jenice]

I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in

Seriously though, I think the special eye and hair colors are there to service the plot. We needed to be able to tell Cersei's kids weren't Robert's. Trying to apply real world examples to ASoIaF will never fully fit because GRRM can do anything he wants and say it's magic or this is a fantasy series. 

[NorthWestern]

There is only one proof, that Cersei's children aren't Robert's: Cersei stupidly admitted it to Ned. Hair and eye color could make Ned suspicious, but it's not an evidence. Probably half of Kingslanding knew Robert's father, almost everyone there knew Robert, Stannis and Renly, people living near Stormsend have seen Edric Storm and the old ones likely knew Robert's grandfather as well. If the Baratheon look is really that special and always dominant no matter what, a lot of people would get the idea, that Cersei's children are bastards and it would become an open secret.

[Armstark]

There is only one proof, that Cersei's children aren't Robert's: Cersei stupidly admitted it to Ned. Hair and eye color could make Ned suspicious, but it's not an evidence. Probably half of Kingslanding knew Robert's father, almost everyone there knew Robert, Stannis and Renly, people living near Stormsend have seen Edric Storm and the old ones likely knew Robert's grandfather as well. If the Baratheon look is really that special and always dominant no matter what, a lot of people would get the idea, that Cersei's children are bastards and it would become an open secret.

It was an open secret actually, at least in King's Landing. Basically all the players knew about it at the beginning of AGoT. Pycelle, Jon Arryn, Stannis Baratheon, Littlefinger, Varys, Cersei and Jaime all knew it. Really the only people with influence in KL who did not know were Renly, Robert and maybe Tywin. Although I think Tywin knew as well since Pycelle is his creature.

[Daendrew]

Recessive genes don't act dominant. A recessive genes either expresses, does not express or the gene is carried onto offspring without having observable traits as a hybrid because they have dominant gene expressing that trait.

You have a genotype and phenotype. They are two different things. When you have two recessive genes in an individual then that expresses and you have purple eyes for example. When genetic traits are observable that is called the phenotype. When the recessive gene is present but there is a dominant gene there to counterbalance it then you can still have the hybrid still carrying some of that gene but the dominant trait expresses.

TLDR: everyone that has black, brown, amber, red, grey, blue, hazel, green or dirty chips of ice eyes is really a secret Targaryen. Blame Aegon the Unworthy. He "put" those genes there.

[Quiet Sister]

These genes obviously aren't recessive in GRRM world.

[purple-eyes]

grrm can not bring up dna test. 

so he can only use this. 

And I have feeling that his biology may not be very good. 

if Baratheon is so strong and dominant, Brienne should have black hair too. 

[Daeron Velar]

Recessive genes don't act dominant. A recessive genes either expresses, does not express or the gene is carried onto offspring without having observable traits as a hybrid because they have dominant gene expressing that trait.

You have a genotype and phenotype. They are two different things. When you have two recessive genes in an individual then that expresses and you have purple eyes for example. When genetic traits are observable that is called the phenotype. When the recessive gene is present but there is a dominant gene there to counterbalance it then you can still have the hybrid still carrying some of that gene but the dominant trait expresses.

TLDR: everyone that has black, brown, amber, red, grey, blue, hazel, green or dirty chips of ice eyes is really a secret Targaryen. Blame Aegon the Unworthy. He "put" those genes there.

Haha yes and nicely statement about the difference between phenotype which are observable traits and genotype which is a persons genetic makeup. What a person looks like is pretty much a toss up and a scramble of their DNA. I kind of lost it with Tyrion at the end, I just don't believe he is a Targaryen Bastard.

[Daendrew]

Haha yes and nicely statement about the difference between phenotype which are observable traits and genotype which is a persons genetic makeup. What a person looks like is pretty much a toss up and a scramble of their DNA. I kind of lost it with Tyrion at the end, I just don't believe he is a Targaryen Bastard.

All Targaryens are bastards in their fathers eyes.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

I don't think GRRM has created coherent and systemised rules of genetic inheritence for his universe; it just works as it serves the respective plot point. I tend to believe that trying to find methodical "scientific" explanations in the ADOIAF-verse nature aspects won't get you anywhere.

[Lord Varys]

Many people in KL suspected the truth about Cersei and Jaime, but I don't think many actually knew. Varys and/or one of his little birds may have overseen/overheard some of their secret meetings (stretching back all the way to Cersei's meeting with Jaime in KL when she convinced him to join the KG) but even that doesn't prove that Cersei's children weren't fathered by Robert. Robert and Cersei had sexual relations, too, and insofar as those occurred in the royal apartments in Maegor's Holdfast no one would have been able to oversee them (because there are no secret passageways in Maegor's beside the secret escape way).

The other clever guys just looked at the children, their personalities, and grew suspicious. Littlefinger most likely didn't know more than, say, Stannis or Jon Arryn. In fact, Stannis still has no proof that Robert is not the father of Cersei's children. He just thinks that's the case, but he cannot prove it.

What I think we can say about the Valyrian/Targaryen looks is that they are very persistent once they have been preserved in a bloodline through many incest and/or cousin marriages. The Velaryons don't practice incest as far as we know yet they still look Valyrian even after centuries. The Targaryen look is also pretty dominant despite the infusion of non-Valyrian blood a couple of times (Arryn, Martell, Dayne, Blackwood blood). Of Egg's sons only Duncan favored Betha, although I would not be surprised if Princess Rhaelle resembled her mother, too, considering that none of Steffon Baratheon's has either Valyrian eyes or Valyrian hair.

In general the Valyrian traits or parts thereof don't necessarily disappear quickly once introduced into a bloodline. Lynesse and Alerie Hightower both have Valyrian or silver heir (both might be descended from Garmund Hightower and Rhaena Targaryen) and Justin Massey has at least 'pale hair'.

Most importantly, Princess Rhaenys, the daughter of Aemon Targaryen and Jocelyn Baratheon, has confirmed Valyrian features despite being descended from Orys Baratheon and the Durrandons. And both Laena and Laenor inherited their parents Valyrian looks. True, Rhaenys' mother Jocelyn was part-Targaryen/Velaryon herself due to the fact that her mother was the Queen Dowager Alyssa Velaryon, so it may be that Jocelyn also had (some) Valyrian features. But the main Baratheon line down to Robert didn't seem to retain any of those features, at least not for long. We can however reasonably say that the Valyrian looks are stronger than the Lannister looks when there is a Targaryen-Baratheon union (perhaps due to the Valyrian blood the Baratheons already have)

In case of Rhaenyra's sons we do not only have the infusion of Arryn blood on her side, but also the Baratheon-Durrandon in Laenor's paternal and the unknown maternal ancestry of Corlys Velaryon - we don't know who is mother or grandparents were.

In general I'd say they are many noble lines with 'magical blood'. The Targaryens and other Valyrian houses have 'the blood of the dragon', the Starks have a certain mixture of First Man/Children of the Forest blood, the Lannister have their special Casterly/Lann blood, and so on.

Bloodraven being an albino seems to be part of his greenseer potential. The Children blessed with that gift had special looks, too.

[Isobel Harper]

Recessive genes don't act dominant. A recessive genes either expresses, does not express or the gene is carried onto offspring without having observable traits as a hybrid because they have dominant gene expressing that trait.

You have a genotype and phenotype. They are two different things. When you have two recessive genes in an individual then that expresses and you have purple eyes for example. When genetic traits are observable that is called the phenotype. When the recessive gene is present but there is a dominant gene there to counterbalance it then you can still have the hybrid still carrying some of that gene but the dominant trait expresses.

TLDR: everyone that has black, brown, amber, red, grey, blue, hazel, green or dirty chips of ice eyes is really a secret Targaryen. Blame Aegon the Unworthy. He "put" those genes there.

The genotype of an albino, in regards to physical appearance, is not all recessive genes.  There is another gene(s) which causes the lack of pigmentation.  For example, if a black-haired, brown-skinned couple have an albino, the child still carries the black-hair and brown-skin genes.  This child may even have black-haired, brown-skinned offspring.

What I'm proposing is that somehow, this Targaryen "condition" (similar to albinism as stated above) switches some dominant gene(s) off, making dragon riding (presumably a recessive trait) possible.

[Isobel Harper]

Haha yes and nicely statement about the difference between phenotype which are observable traits and genotype which is a persons genetic makeup. What a person looks like is pretty much a toss up and a scramble of their DNA. I kind of lost it with Tyrion at the end, I just don't believe he is a Targaryen Bastard.

I don't believe that Tyrion is a Targaryen either.  I brought the chimeric twin theory up as a possible explanation for the green and black eye.  (And if Tyrion were to have any Targaryen blood in him, the chimeric twin theory is the only one I would really support.)

[Daendrew]

I don't believe that Tyrion is a Targaryen either.  I brought the chimeric twin theory up as a possible explanation for the green and black eye.  (And if Tyrion were to have any Targaryen blood in him, the chimeric twin theory is the only one I would really support.)

All Targaryens are bastards in their fathers eyes. 

Here is an amazing RadioLab episode on Chimerism.

[DDDUnit]

Recessive genes do not act dominant. Not to mention hair and eye color are not simply controlled by one gene. I will explain how something that is controlled by one gene, lets use a widow's peak as an example, works. W=the dominant widow's peak gene. w=recessive straight hair line. A person who is WW or Ww is always going to have the v-shaped widow's peak. The recessive gene will not "act dominant." If a person is ww, they will express the straight hair line. If a WW person reproduces, their offspring will all have a widow's peak because their haploid gametes can only contain a W. However, if a Ww person reproduces with a Ww or ww person, the offspring will have a 25% chance or 50% chance, respectively, of displaying the recessive flat hair line ww. These ww offspring can then only pass on the recessive gene and must reproduce with someone who has a widow's peak for their offspring to have a chance at having a widow's peak.

Your argument for Aerys carrying a hidden "what you perceive to be a dominant gene" eye color and passing it along to Tyrion is completely discounted by real world genetics, since you seem to want to use real world genetics for your argument. However, in the ASOIAF universe basic genetics do not seem to follow real world genetics. This is not surprising because seasons last years and magic exists. Trying to base theories upon real world genetics is pointless. (I do know you don't actually think Tyrion is a targ. I'm just basing my response on your OP).

[Dofs]

Well, Targaryen genes were constantly beating Dornish genes, who should be very dominant. That just tells that Targaryen genes are not really that recessive.

[Pox Americana]

Monogene inheritance is a simplified teaching model in human phenotyping, in reality phenotype is controlled extensively by polygene inheritance. Incalculable combinations. Also, you're talking about influx of genes from dozens of generations of interbreeding with Westorosi, other Valyrians, the Essoine commoners, etc. To try and reduce it down to simple recessive vs. dominant expression is a gross oversimplification of human genetics, both in the real world and the source material. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

The thing about Rhaenyra is that it was 3 and 3.  All 3 of her kids with Laenor had the dark features and all 3 with Daemon looked like Targs.  The odds on that happening if Laenor was the father are astronomical.