Why Is Jon Snow a Targaryen?

[Siberia]

my first thread!

 

So If you believe that R + L = J is true (which it honestly is), why do you think George rr Martin made Jon a targaryen? 

Is it because George wants Jon to have a claim on the Iron Throne or does it only have to do with him wanting Jon to have  the blood of the targaryens (riding a dragon)

George could easily have made a character like Jon Snow without him being Targaryen, but he did and its one of the biggest mysteries in the books. 

So my question is, why did George find it so important to make Jon a hidden Targaryen?

[Make Shadowbabies Not War]

I think Jon's blood has a lot to do with the 'Prince that was promised' and the SOIAF. The idea of blood containing magical properties seems to have some significance in these books, especially in terms of the Targaryans and Starks due to their links to magic.By making Jon not only a Stark, but also Targaryan, Martin has given him both sides to this inborn magic. In short, his very heritage gives him some native power over fire and ice. That's my two cents anyway.

[Knight of the Turnip Tree]

I think too many people see the idea of Jon being Rhaegar's son as a generic fantasy trope, where all will live happily ever after and he'll be the big hero king.

If he is indeed the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, when Jon learns this, he's going to come to the following realizations:

- His father/uncle lied to him all his life and sent him off to the Wall where he would never marry and have a family of his own. If he learns it was all because of a promise, he might also wonder if Ned truly loved him, or if it was his promise to a dead woman that drove him above all else.

- His mother is dead and he will never know her.

- His father is dead and he will never know him.

- His siblings aren't really his siblings.

- He missed out on knowing so much about his father's side of the family from his great-uncle Aemon.

- His parents' actions led the realm into a war that killed both his grandfathers, his mother, his father, his uncle, his half-brother, his half-sister, and eventually his father/uncle, as well as putting his aunt and uncle into exile. Not to mention the second war that saw the destruction of his home, the deaths and scattering of his siblings/cousins.

There's also the fact that the north, who might have welcomed him as Lord of Winterfell as a son of Eddard Stark, might instead look upon him with anger and disdain as the dragonspawn product of a union that led to disaster for House Stark and many northern sons.

If Daenerys ends up being a disaster for the realm, or something else happens that pushes him toward the Iron Throne, he'd get to look forward to living in the backstabbing rat's nest that is King's Landing instead of Winterfell that had been his home. He never dreamed of having a wife and children, and now he has the opportunity, but he'll probably get a political marriage and heirs instead of a real family. If all this happens after the Others are defeated, it just might be another painful, exhausting duty and he'll get to live in the place where his father/uncle, half-sister, half-brother, uncle, and grandfathers died while he constantly worries about being stabbed in the back again.

Now, I admit to Jon being one of my favorite characters and would like to see him on the throne, but not in a LotResque happy ending. Instead I see him yearning for the snows of home while enduring all the scars of lies, losses, betrayal, war, cold, death, and presiding over a realm left in shambles from wars against men and monsters.

Sounds pretty bittersweet to me.

[Jon No]

Because Jon's clearly a special snowflake (sigh).

Apparently it's not enough that he has a dire wolf and warging powers, but now he'll probably end up riding a dragon as well as being the secret heir to throne with, probably the best claim. On top of that, he'll probably end up as tPtwP and/or AAR. I can't understand why anyone would want one character to do all of these things, it's so freaking boring and predictable, and annoying. 

Then again, maybe it's because I'm not a Jon Snow fan.

 

[StarkofWinterfell]

I think too many people see the idea of Jon being Rhaegar's son as a generic fantasy trope, where all will live happily ever after and he'll be the big hero king.

If he is indeed the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, when Jon learns this, he's going to come to the following realizations:

- His father/uncle lied to him all his life and sent him off to the Wall where he would never marry and have a family of his own. If he learns it was all because of a promise, he might also wonder if Ned truly loved him, or if it was his promise to a dead woman that drove him above all else.

- His mother is dead and he will never know her.

- His father is dead and he will never know him.

- His siblings aren't really his siblings.

- He missed out on knowing so much about his father's side of the family from his great-uncle Aemon.

- His parents' actions led the realm into a war that killed both his grandfathers, his mother, his father, his uncle, his half-brother, his half-sister, and eventually his father/uncle, as well as putting his aunt and uncle into exile. Not to mention the second war that saw the destruction of his home, the deaths and scattering of his siblings/cousins.

There's also the fact that the north, who might have welcomed him as Lord of Winterfell as a son of Eddard Stark, might instead look upon him with anger and disdain as the dragonspawn product of a union that led to disaster for House Stark and many northern sons.

If Daenerys ends up being a disaster for the realm, or something else happens that pushes him toward the Iron Throne, he'd get to look forward to living in the backstabbing rat's nest that is King's Landing instead of Winterfell that had been his home. He never dreamed of having a wife and children, and now he has the opportunity, but he'll probably get a political marriage and heirs instead of a real family. If all this happens after the Others are defeated, it just might be another painful, exhausting duty and he'll get to live in the place where his father/uncle, half-sister, half-brother, uncle, and grandfathers died while he constantly worries about being stabbed in the back again.

Now, I admit to Jon being one of my favorite characters and would like to see him on the throne, but not in a LotResque happy ending. Instead I see him yearning for the snows of home while enduring all the scars of lies, losses, betrayal, war, cold, death, and presiding over a realm left in shambles from wars against men and monsters.

Sounds pretty bittersweet to me.

this is an amazing post that really puts it all into perspective that Jon is not a Targ! Thanks man!

[Black Crow]

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I can't understand the question.

[Joan Jett]

So he could fall in love w/ his (not)sister and be able to marry her. Ppl will just say "eh, it's in his blood. what are you gonna do?"

[Curled Finger]

I think too many people see the idea of Jon being Rhaegar's son as a generic fantasy trope, where all will live happily ever after and he'll be the big hero king.

If he is indeed the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, when Jon learns this, he's going to come to the following realizations:

- His father/uncle lied to him all his life and sent him off to the Wall where he would never marry and have a family of his own. If he learns it was all because of a promise, he might also wonder if Ned truly loved him, or if it was his promise to a dead woman that drove him above all else.

- His mother is dead and he will never know her.

- His father is dead and he will never know him.

- His siblings aren't really his siblings.

- He missed out on knowing so much about his father's side of the family from his great-uncle Aemon.

- His parents' actions led the realm into a war that killed both his grandfathers, his mother, his father, his uncle, his half-brother, his half-sister, and eventually his father/uncle, as well as putting his aunt and uncle into exile. Not to mention the second war that saw the destruction of his home, the deaths and scattering of his siblings/cousins.

There's also the fact that the north, who might have welcomed him as Lord of Winterfell as a son of Eddard Stark, might instead look upon him with anger and disdain as the dragonspawn product of a union that led to disaster for House Stark and many northern sons.

If Daenerys ends up being a disaster for the realm, or something else happens that pushes him toward the Iron Throne, he'd get to look forward to living in the backstabbing rat's nest that is King's Landing instead of Winterfell that had been his home. He never dreamed of having a wife and children, and now he has the opportunity, but he'll probably get a political marriage and heirs instead of a real family. If all this happens after the Others are defeated, it just might be another painful, exhausting duty and he'll get to live in the place where his father/uncle, half-sister, half-brother, uncle, and grandfathers died while he constantly worries about being stabbed in the back again.

Now, I admit to Jon being one of my favorite characters and would like to see him on the throne, but not in a LotResque happy ending. Instead I see him yearning for the snows of home while enduring all the scars of lies, losses, betrayal, war, cold, death, and presiding over a realm left in shambles from wars against men and monsters.

Sounds pretty bittersweet to me.

This really is a great argument and highlights so much of Jon's struggle.   I would like to add the possibility that Jon may embrace this hidden heritage because of Maester Aemon.   He may also understand that Ned loved him very much and sent him off to the wall to protect him.  If, as many theorize, the promise was to hide Jon's true heritage from him, Jon may understand the value in making such a hard vow.    It's Ned after all.  As sullen as Jon can be it's hard to say if he will give into his emotions such as with Ygritte and the last idea to ride on Winterfell or if he will rely more on his honor and understanding of hard choices for the greater good.   Yes allowing Jon to go to the Wall, which wasn't Ned's idea so much as it was Jon's insistence and Cat's nasty 2 cents, was sure to be a hard life for Jon.   Certainly in Ned's mind it was better to have a hard life than to die if the truth was to surface.     I would still like to have seen Cat's reaction to Jon's real ID.   

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I think too many people see the idea of Jon being Rhaegar's son as a generic fantasy trope, where all will live happily ever after and he'll be the big hero king.

If he is indeed the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, when Jon learns this, he's going to come to the following realizations:

- His father/uncle lied to him all his life and sent him off to the Wall where he would never marry and have a family of his own. If he learns it was all because of a promise, he might also wonder if Ned truly loved him, or if it was his promise to a dead woman that drove him above all else.

Actually, that's not accurate. Going to the Wall is a decision Jon took himself, neither Ned or Benjen had anything to do with it. Jon's life as a bastard was hard, but not all bastards end up going to the Wall. Some get married and end up being useful and happy.

If Ned and Benjen allowed him to go to the Wall is because they treated him like any member of their family. Had Rickon wanted to go, they would agree with it as well. Jon might be son of Rhaegar and Lyanna's but there is nothing he can do about it. Telling others or letting others know by mistake would endanger him (Robert would see him as a child of his enemy who was fathered by rape). His best option was to be treated like he's in fact Ned's son, even if a bastard.

Promise or not, going to the Wall, for people with Northern/FM blood is not odd or seeing as a punishment.

[The Ned's Little Girl]

{...}

Now, I admit to Jon being one of my favorite characters and would like to see him on the throne, but not in a LotResque happy ending. Instead I see him yearning for the snows of home while enduring all the scars of lies, losses, betrayal, war, cold, death, and presiding over a realm left in shambles from wars against men and monsters.

Sounds pretty bittersweet to me.

Very thoughtful analysis; however, I don't see any "sweet" in that "bittersweet". There's only bitter.

 

[Gertrude]

Jon is kind of the embodiment of one of the themes of these books - the past. Decisions made years ago shaping the future and the past not happening how you were told it did.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Jon is kind of the embodiment of one of the themes of these books - the past. Decisions made years ago shaping the future and the past not happening how you were told it did.

That's pretty much what Tyrion said: we all are product of our parents, but not in the literal sense of the word "product". They shape us.

[FuzzyJAM]

I think he gets to be a Targaryen so he can reject being a Targaryen, and all the nonsense prophecy that surrounds it.  He'll probably be The Prince but it'll be nothing as expected by those who followed the prophecy.  I suspect the major prophecies will appear unfulfilled to the majority of characters at the end of the series, and only the reader and a select few will be able to see how, perhaps, they came true.  

When he learns the truth, I think there's a good chance he will still see himself as Ned's bastard son Jon Snow regardless of the biology.  I find it very unlikely that he'll ever attempt to claim the Iron Throne.  I would love it if he somehow found out about his parentage and claim to the throne and just carried on doing his best as before, keeping it a secret.

[TeamWhiteWalkerz]

To make him the son(g) of ice and fire. The IT is unimportant

[bent branch]

Because this is A Song of Ice and Fire with the Starks being Ice and the Targaryens being fire. If there weren't some Targaryens in the story it would just be A Song of Ice. It kind of blows me away at how many people just hate the Targaryens when their story is ultimately going to be one of the central elements of the entire series.

[Stubby]

[MOD]

This topic can be carried on in the new version of the stickied R+L=J thread when it starts.

[/MOD]