Tarellen Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I've heard politcaly mace is like warwick the kingmaker. What if he was like him in mind and spirt? How would that change Roberts rebellion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah.jenice Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Why Mace Tyrell? Wouldn't Jon Arryn be more of the Warwick in Robert's Rebellion? He's the one supporting the change in dynasty from the "Mad King." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Why Mace Tyrell? Wouldn't Jon Arryn be more of the Warwick in Robert's Rebellion? He's the one supporting the change in dynasty from the "Mad King." This. Jon Arryn was the kingmaker of Robert's Rebellion, and Mace was the kingmaker of the Wot5K by crowning Renly at Highgarden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Did Richard Neville's mother make all his decisions for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Did Richard Neville's mother make all his decisions for him?Olenna was against declaring for Renly, yet Mace went through with it all the same. She also decided to kill Joffrey because Mace was adamant on marrying Margaery to that psychopath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I've heard politcaly mace is like warwick the kingmaker. What if he was like him in mind and spirt? How would that change Roberts rebellion?If you mean that perhaps both men put on a great show to the people of the capital so that they become widely popular, then you would find where the comparison begins and ends (well, except for maybe being avaricious for more power). For all his faults though, lost battles and such, Richard Neville did much to earn his reputation and the regard that the nobility of the continent gave him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorn Snow Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Tywin and/or Walder Frey fit the bill better in my opinion.Like Warwick Tywin supported one king, was in fact his closest ally until he rejected Tywin/Warwick´s daughter as a match. Then Tywin got his daughter married to another king instead.Walder Frey wanted his daughter married to a king. The king Robb/Edward married instead a member of the low nobility from the other side. In both cases the woman is from a family fighting on the opposite side, a family associated with witchcraft, originally from an older lineage but down on it´s luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrell_like_Squirrel Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 It seems to me that Martin has taken elements of Warwick's life and personality and scattered it throughout the series. I think overall Tywin represents the best comparable character, but Warwick wasn't nearly as viscous at Tywin. The ambition, the power, and the grandiose selfishness fits with Tywin, but I hadn't considered how well it matches with the Tyrells.Mace could work, given his family ambition and gregarious character. Warwick was a bit of a taker himself, so I can see similarities. Plus, by using Tyrell family power he was able to give real political heft to both Renly AND Joffrey, definitely getting some Kingmaker vibes there.Ultimately I think we'll have to wait for TWOW to see how Mace plays out. If he starts playing the field again and tries to back Aegon VI then you could make even more comparisons, ie Warwick ditching the Yorkists due to the rising influence of the Queen *cough*Cersei*cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minstral Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Tywin and/or Walder Frey fit the bill better in my opinion.Like Warwick Tywin supported one king, was in fact his closest ally until he rejected Tywin/Warwick´s daughter as a match. Then Tywin got his daughter married to another king instead.Walder Frey wanted his daughter married to a king. The king Robb/Edward married instead a member of the low nobility from the other side. In both cases the woman is from a family fighting on the opposite side, a family associated with witchcraft, originally from an older lineage but down on it´s luck.It was actually that King Edward married in secret to a low house while he had sent Warick to France to negotiate a marriage alliance with one of the French king's daughters. Edward had also tried to supplant the Neville's power to an extent with his bride's family (Woodvilles), perhaps in part because the power of Warick's family over the throne was too great to properly exert his will. Also Tywin doesn't really fit the bill for the Kingmaker, politically and in character. I mean, in a way Tywin always reminded me of Richard of York in his politics, father of both the Yorkist kings Edward and Richard. Richard was the most powerful noble of his time (and had a claim to the throne that could be considered stronger than his own king/cousin), but often found himself sidelined in politics in the kings councils/regencies. In character though, Tywin takes his strongest influence from King Edward "longshanks" the first (also known as the hammer of the Scots). Both were known for their dedication to administration and their wars reflect each other pretty obviously. If you take the Lannister arms and the Reyne arms respectivily you get the Plantegenet and de Montforts arms that opposed each other in the in the second Baron's war, and Edwards later campaigns in Scotland mirror in a way Tywin's own conflict with the Northmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorn Snow Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 It was actually that King Edward married in secret to a low house while he had sent Warick to France to negotiate a marriage alliance with one of the French king's daughters. Edward had also tried to supplant the Neville's power to an extent with his bride's family (Woodvilles), perhaps in part because the power of Warick's family over the throne was too great to properly exert his will. True. In the end despite many similiarities at different points of the story it doesn´t completely fit the war of the roses either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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