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What about the Crannogmen?


heirofValyria

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A few questions about one of the most overlooked parts of Westeros...

1. What is Howland Reed doing? Is he in his stronghold waiting to sent help to any pro-Stark forces? Also The Reeds are literally almost extinct. Jojen has vanished along with his sister Meera to parts unknown. What happens to Meera? Does she just stay in the cave or does she discover something sinister with the children and their antics? Is Jojen going to die?

2. No heirs for Howland means that the crannogmen could currently under a succession crisis. Could this be why there is almost no news of foreign intervention on the part of the Crannogmen?

3. Could the Crannogs a road-bump in the eventual whitewalker invasion? The terrain was able to fend off countless Andal attacks. Could the enormous swamps delay the attack?

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1. we don't know. He has been quite a mysterious figure from the start. He will show up at some point, of that I am convinced. He is the only living person who was present at the ToJ. We do not know for a certainty that they were his only children. They are said to be "his" and they don't mention siblings. In all probability, they are the only ones. There are lots of theories on Jojen's fate if you are interested, including Jojen Paste and that famous he wouldn't even fight his fate statement, said by Meera, and created lots of discussion.

2. We don't know. Maybe yes, maybe no, but probably insignificant. There is no news and no foreign intervention because that's always been their nature. Secretive and don't mix much with outsiders, and when outsiders do come, they end up dead and drowned. But there is the bond between the Ned and Howland and messages were sent back and forth (by riders I would guess). 

There is also the issue with the messengers Rob sent up the Neck. Maege Mormont made it in and out of the Neck, and met with Howland Reed. Currently her whereabouts are unknown. She was last mentioned by her daughter Alysane, saying she was with her other sisters, but not where... you might want to check the Great Northern Conspiracy.

Also, the Ned's bones are with the Crannogmen. By the time they made it to the moat, the road was closed by the Iron Born's Half-Pig Half-Chicken Victarian. So Mollen and his crew must have stayed in the Neck with the bones. (afterwhich he put on the hood and went to Winterfell)

3. I don't think they will play that significant a role with white walkers. I think, as I said, the ToJ events will be revealed sooner or later, and Howland Reed is the only one that knows what happened.

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I only know we will see him in present time also flashback accoring to some spolier Bran will have tower of Joy flashback *this information can be false * Also I believe he will play key role in Rob"s will which he show Jon as a lord of Winterfall or King in the North I belive he will be key person to Jon in right mind Howard will play the role I mean being reborn and learing biologic parent can be downing thing and Reed child help bran why not big reed help brans big brother Also In the book I dont think and hope Family bond of stark children will be shaken even Jon learn about R+L .

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A few questions about one of the most overlooked parts of Westeros...

1. What is Howland Reed doing? Is he in his stronghold waiting to sent help to any pro-Stark forces? Also The Reeds are literally almost extinct. Jojen has vanished along with his sister Meera to parts unknown. What happens to Meera? Does she just stay in the cave or does she discover something sinister with the children and their antics? Is Jojen going to die?

2. No heirs for Howland means that the crannogmen could currently under a succession crisis. Could this be why there is almost no news of foreign intervention on the part of the Crannogmen?

3. Could the Crannogs a road-bump in the eventual whitewalker invasion? The terrain was able to fend off countless Andal attacks. Could the enormous swamps delay the attack?

howland must be under very strict orders from Ned to remain quite and hidden for some obvious reasons also we arent sure that HR is actually still there, i dont believe he is still there i think he is upto something big

 

we dont know how big exactly how Reed is, there must be other reeds around

 

other froze the bloody air itself when they come, so before they come down, they will freeze anything that is still a liquid. 

 

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I'd forgotten about Howland and the TOJ storyline.

Aside from Meera & Jojen, I'm not invested in the Crannogs since we haven't seen them in the story.

1. We've never met HR, so impossible to say. As for Meera, maybe she'll stay with Bran and she & Hodor will attend him, assuming Jojen is indeed paste. I could also see Meera & Hodor returning south with Coldhands.

2. low priority, dnc.

3. I know it it is theoretically possible the Others will get that far south, but that would drastically alter the story if you ask me.

a new question for you all:

4. What role the Crannogs will play in the inevitable downfall of House Frey? We know Stoneheart is already hunting & hanging them.  Arya/Nymeria's wolf pack will be soon if they haven't started already. We know there is tension between the Freys and the crannogmen, not a stretch to think they could soon be at war.

 

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Crannogmen, Children of the Forest and the order of Green Men on the Isle of Faces are connected with each other. They know the future and what is to transpire as Howland Reed visited the Isle many times, plus his son is a greenseer. They also know that House Stark is the ultimate royal family whose one member is becoming a strong Old God.

That is why I think people who support High Septon = Howland Reed theory are right, Howland not only avenges his close friend and liege lord in King's Landing, he has crucial information about the endgame and sets the ground for small folk of the South to accept Jon as their king. No one will believe his word of R+L=J, he needs to accomplish it another way. If he gets religious support of the biggest faith in the Seven Kingdoms behind "promised prince".

The fact is, we do not know anything about Howland Reed and what kind of a person he is, only from the tales of others. Even his kids are kinda fishy. But I guess we will see.

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As GRRM has said,  "Some characters haven't appeared yet simply because they know too much about the mysteries of the series".  And since the Crannogmen are, in essence, an extension of HR...there shouldn't be any surprise we haven't see much of them yet.  When HR makes his appearance, you'll see the Crannogmen get involved.  Until then, I don't expect to see much, if anything.

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A few questions about one of the most overlooked parts of Westeros...

1. What is Howland Reed doing? Is he in his stronghold waiting to sent help to any pro-Stark forces? Also The Reeds are literally almost extinct. Jojen has vanished along with his sister Meera to parts unknown. What happens to Meera? Does she just stay in the cave or does she discover something sinister with the children and their antics? Is Jojen going to die?

2. No heirs for Howland means that the crannogmen could currently under a succession crisis. Could this be why there is almost no news of foreign intervention on the part of the Crannogmen?

3. Could the Crannogs a road-bump in the eventual whitewalker invasion? The terrain was able to fend off countless Andal attacks. Could the enormous swamps delay the attack?

Howland had the crannogmen harrassing the ironborn at Deepwood Motte or Moat Calin, I forget which. And Robb sent his will to Greywater Watch with a Mormont a Glover and others. So we know he's involved just don't snow where, how much? Could he be Set Sandrich? Getting ready to kidnap Sansa?

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As GRRM has said,  "Some characters haven't appeared yet simply because they know too much about the mysteries of the series".  And since the Crannogmen are, in essence, an extension of HR...there shouldn't be any surprise we haven't see much of them yet.  When HR makes his appearance, you'll see the Crannogmen get involved.  Until then, I don't expect to see much, if anything.

The only problem with this idea is that Ned knew the answer to the Jon Snow's parentage question (as well as other persistent mysteries - like who the heck was Ned & Lyanna's mother and why is she never mentioned or thought about?) and Ned was all over AGOT as a POV and as a character in other POV's chapters. What good did that do anyone? He revealed just enough to get the mystery ball rolling.

Clearly Martin could write any character he wanted to as a POV or secondary character without a reveal. For example, Meera & Jojen tell us just enough about the Tourney at Harrenhal to let us know their dad was there and he told them about Lyanna & Rhaegar. She clearly knows a lot more about Ned & Ashara, and L & R than she puts in the story. In all likelihood she & Jojen know the truth about Jon from their dad. They could have put the whole thing to bed right then & there, but no, that would spoil the fun. ;) 

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The only problem with this idea is that Ned knew the answer to the Jon Snow's parentage question (as well as other persistent mysteries - like who the heck was Ned & Lyanna's mother and why is she never mentioned or thought about?) and Ned was all over AGOT as a POV and as a character in other POV's chapters. What good did that do anyone? He revealed just enough to get the mystery ball rolling.

Clearly Martin could write any character he wanted to as a POV or secondary character without a reveal. For example, Meera & Jojen tell us just enough about the Tourney at Harrenhal to let us know their dad was there and he told them about Lyanna & Rhaegar. She clearly knows a lot more about Ned & Ashara, and L & R than she puts in the story. In all likelihood she & Jojen know the truth about Jon from their dad. They could have put the whole thing to bed right then & there, but no, that would spoil the fun. ;) 

Yes but there have been a few clues (that I can recall) when we are in Neds POV that point to something being "off" about Jon and him.  There is a big chunk of the story we are still missing, and it's unclear why exactly Ned chose to lie about Jon's parentage from the get-go (outside of it being Lyanna's dying wish).  It's been 15 years since it happened, so something tells me Ned probably does not sit back and dwell on it much anymore, so you don't get *too* much mention in his POV of it, only bits and pieces (enough to get the ball rolling on the mystery, as you said).

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1. we don't know. He has been quite a mysterious figure from the start. He will show up at some point, of that I am convinced. He is the only living person who was present at the ToJ. We do not know for a certainty that they were his only children. They are said to be "his" and they don't mention siblings. In all probability, they are the only ones. There are lots of theories on Jojen's fate if you are interested, including Jojen Paste and that famous he wouldn't even fight his fate statement, said by Meera, and created lots of discussion.

2. We don't know. Maybe yes, maybe no, but probably insignificant. There is no news and no foreign intervention because that's always been their nature. Secretive and don't mix much with outsiders, and when outsiders do come, they end up dead and drowned. But there is the bond between the Ned and Howland and messages were sent back and forth (by riders I would guess). 

There is also the issue with the messengers Rob sent up the Neck. Maege Mormont made it in and out of the Neck, and met with Howland Reed. Currently her whereabouts are unknown. She was last mentioned by her daughter Alysane, saying she was with her other sisters, but not where... you might want to check the Great Northern Conspiracy.

Also, the Ned's bones are with the Crannogmen. By the time they made it to the moat, the road was closed by the Iron Born's Half-Pig Half-Chicken Victarian. So Mollen and his crew must have stayed in the Neck with the bones. (afterwhich he put on the hood and went to Winterfell)

3. I don't think they will play that significant a role with white walkers. I think, as I said, the ToJ events will be revealed sooner or later, and Howland Reed is the only one that knows what happened.

Two minor observations.

1 - there is some evidence that there was at least one more person at the ToJ; Ned remembers how, at the end, they had to make him let go of Lyanna's hand or something like that.

2 - I don't believe it isn't stated anywhere that Maege made it to GW, nor that she left and went elsewhere. She may never have made it there (unlikely, imo), she may be there sill, and she may have gone elsewhere. 

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Two minor observations.

1 - there is some evidence that there was at least one more person at the ToJ; Ned remembers how, at the end, they had to make him let go of Lyanna's hand or something like that.

2 - I don't believe it isn't stated anywhere that Maege made it to GW, nor that she left and went elsewhere. She may never have made it there (unlikely, imo), she may be there sill, and she may have gone elsewhere. 

Awesome stuff! these are excellent observations!

1. Absolutely right, and I did wondered at that... We have HR, but who else was there?! wet-nurse perhaps? The rest were definitely dead!

2. Correct. I assumed that she made it to HR and out again. Which is not 100% proven at all, she could have turned aside. My assumption is that MM would follow her King's instructions no matter what, but if she heard on the way of the RW, there is no point going further up the Neck to deliver Rob's orders and ask for the Crannogmen's help with Rob's battle.

Thanks for pointing them out :)

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Quote's gone a bit wonky...

1 - Yeah, I think a wetnurse is the most likely explanation; a wetnurse or some sort of companion to Lyanna. And we may never find out! Events may be revealed by Howland Reed or some other way, and no mention of  this other person will ever be made again. Or not. We'll see. :)

2 - Personally I think Maege is with Howland Reed, or was until very recently. Not necessarily at GW, though. I just think we have to keep in mind all the possible alternatives. As someone mentioned upthread (I think), you should definitely check out the Great Northern Conspiracy threads. Lots of crazy ideas being floated around, but lots of excellent and very insightful posts as well. 
As to the bold, not necessarily. They may want to avenge their king. They know their king had living heirs, regardless of what's in Robb's will.  Also, how much do they know of Manderly's plans and actions? Where are the prisoners who were at the Twins, including the Greatjon? Jaime ordered Edwyn Frey to send word the Twins that they were to be sent to KL immediately, and that was a while ago. Could they have escaped? Bumped into the BwB? There are quite a few possible scenarios... 

ETA: the quote didn't have your text! here's the 'bold' I meant:

but if she heard on the way of the RW, there is no point going further up the Neck to deliver Rob's orders and ask for the Crannogmen's help with Rob's battle.

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