Coldhands

[Mfeeney2010]

I can't find a post anywhere. But what are the theories of who Coldhands is? All the clues we have are that he's been dead for a long time and he where black like the men of the nights watch. Also, do you think we will ever truly find out?

[DeathYon]

It's Moonboy.

[Dorian Martell]

It's Moonboy.

Yes, or a nameless forgotten ranger who's previous life has nothing to do with the plot if the story

[SevasTra82]

Yes, or a nameless forgotten ranger who's previous life has nothing to do with the plot if the story

Exactly.

I'm still holding out that it's going to wind up being Commander Hoare (the clues are all there).  But overall, I think Coldhands is an "easter egg" character that we'll see more of during the Dunk and Egg stories, or other spin offs.  He's not a major character or anyone important, IMO.

[Butterfreak]

His identity was never really made out to be important in the books.  I think the story will focus more on what he is than a big reveal of who he is.

[Lord Ravenstark]

He was a Raven's Teeth long bowman who went to the Wall with Brynden Rivers. He knew Bloodraven had deserted to become a god, so Brynden Tagaryen had him killed, resurrected and bound to serve. Brynden Blackwood now has a faithful servant, and that is it.

Anyway, I like to ask myself what he is now, not who he was.

[Dorian Martell]

There are no clues to who he is. Not a single one, other than he "Died long ago."  People get a lord commander or a raven's tooth after they make a number of baseless assumptions. 

[Maxxine]

I think he's a long lost member of NW but no one of particular note. As others have said I think the better question is what he is. I think he is something in the vein of wight but not a wight. We've had no indication that any wight can talk, and CH can. We also know wights are clumsy & uncoordinated and this doesn't describe CH.

[Clegane'sPup]

He wears black & calls Sam “Brother”, rides an elk and ravens travel with him. He is pale, his hands cold as ice and black, he has black eyes, can’t pass through the Black Gate & yet he knows where the Black Gate is, and when he slaughters the elk he speaks a strange language, he can’t enter Bloodraven’s cave and that someone killed him long ago. He also knows the back entrance to the cave is three leagues north and down a sinkhole.

Summer did not like the smell of him, “Dead meat, dry blood, a faint whiff of rot. And cold. Cold over all.” He doesn’t eat or drink and never seems to sleep. The only time his voice is described it is as, “His voice rattled in his throat, as thin and gaunt as he was.”

When Sam tells Bran & Jojen that Coldhands rides an elk both young men ask if Coldhands is a greenman. Seems that Sam doesn't know the story's about the greenmen.

That's all I got, other than he is old and has circulation problems.

[Ser Knute]

There are no clues to who he is. Not a single one, other than he "Died long ago."  People get a lord commander or a raven's tooth after they make a number of baseless assumptions. 

I think the clues are few but can't agree that there are none.

Coldhands rides an Elk; who else rode elks?  Green Men rode elks.  Who were the Green Men?  The respective "Wise Men" of the First Men and the CoTF.  The Green Men was an order established to guard the Weirwoods on the Isle of Faces or the God's Eye when The Pact is made.  So, while that doesn't help distinguish who Coldhands is specifically,it does give us a clue as to who he was.  He was 'likely' a Wise Man among the First Men, possibly one of the first Green Seers among Men.  Now there is one issue in that within the Wiki, the Order of the Green Hand is associated with House Gardener, which were originally alleged to be the Kings of The First Men or among the First Men Kings.  Now for several generations House Gardener remained as First Men King(s) but at the outset of the Andal Invasion, Gwayne the IV is said to have sought aid from the CoTF, while Mern III has some interesting association with a Wood's Witch who was said to claim she could summon armies of the dead.  The expected conflict never occurred however as House Gardener eventually adopted a policy of assimilation with the Andals via the Three Sage Kings.  Curiously, The Order of the Green Hand has its origins with House Gardener, but only House Manderly still exists as a known member of that Order and they follow with the Andal Faith of the Seven, but we don't know what purpose the Order of the Green Hand had, or if it relates to the Green Men in any way but it's not out of the realm of possibility that they are related.  So, it could be that Coldhands is related to House Gardener, perhaps even Garth Greenhand himself.   The clues are few, but there are enough to point a certain direction, I don't think anywhere else in the series do we see a reference to men riding Elks except these two examples; the association while narrow, appears to point that way specifically, for a reason.  While whom he is specifically may not be that big an issue to the story proper, it'd be interesting if he is/was in fact one of these fabled heroes of the Dawn Age/Age of Heroes that the maester's claim is all tale and fable.

[Muggle]

my fav baseless thought is its Deamon Blackfyre carted off to the wall with BR.

[Durran Durrandon]

I think the clues are few but can't agree that there are none.

Coldhands rides an Elk; who else rode elks?  Green Men rode elks.  Who were the Green Men?  The respective "Wise Men" of the First Men and the CoTF.  The Green Men was an order established to guard the Weirwoods on the Isle of Faces or the God's Eye when The Pact is made.  So, while that doesn't help distinguish who Coldhands is specifically,it does give us a clue as to who he was.  He was 'likely' a Wise Man among the First Men, possibly one of the first Green Seers among Men.  Now there is one issue in that within the Wiki, the Order of the Green Hand is associated with House Gardener, which were originally alleged to be the Kings of The First Men or among the First Men Kings.  Now for several generations House Gardener remained as First Men King(s) but at the outset of the Andal Invasion, Gwayne the IV is said to have sought aid from the CoTF, while Mern III has some interesting association with a Wood's Witch who was said to claim she could summon armies of the dead.  The expected conflict never occurred however as House Gardener eventually adopted a policy of assimilation with the Andals via the Three Sage Kings.  Curiously, The Order of the Green Hand has its origins with House Gardener, but only House Manderly still exists as a known member of that Order and they follow with the Andal Faith of the Seven, but we don't know what purpose the Order of the Green Hand had, or if it relates to the Green Men in any way but it's not out of the realm of possibility that they are related.  So, it could be that Coldhands is related to House Gardener, perhaps even Garth Greenhand himself.   The clues are few, but there are enough to point a certain direction, I don't think anywhere else in the series do we see a reference to men riding Elks except these two examples; the association while narrow, appears to point that way specifically, for a reason.  While whom he is specifically may not be that big an issue to the story proper, it'd be interesting if he is/was in fact one of these fabled heroes of the Dawn Age/Age of Heroes that the maester's claim is all tale and fable.

I'm all for theories about the green men, but it seems likely that the elk is simply a creature warged by BR, because it is big enough for riders and suited to the cold.

[Ser Knute]

I'm all for theories about the green men, but it seems likely that the elk is simply a creature warged by BR, because it is big enough for riders and suited to the cold.

Oh no doubt, what's interesting is that say if BR is actually warging the Elk, then it allows more possibilities for Coldhands to be someone other than say, a random Brother of the NW who's somehow not quite a wight, but isn't an other either.  I've seen theories that hold that because CH's isn't fully one or the other that his body is being warged by BR.  Then we have to ask how do we explain that given the elements that Varamyr has added to the notion of the spirit being able to take over another host?  In this case we're presented with at least two possibilities; CH's is inhabited by the spirit of a skinchanger, so he isn't affected (necessarily) by any power the Others have over their wights; or that he's being warged by another skinchanger.  That leaves plenty of other options as well, but with Varamyr being able to control multiple animals at once time as a skinchanger, it leaves open the possibility that BR is warging both, but I'd like to believe that's not really the case.

While I fully admit that the evidence is thin, I also find it hard to dismiss the one connection we have with Elks being ridden by characters within the story.  It could just as easily have been a horse that was also wighted/warged if CH himself as a character is not meant to be of any significance historically is one argument I'm leaning toward.  As well, we've had strong backstory reference to the Order of Green Men and to a much lesser extent the Order of the Green Hand.  Now we also have that House Manderly still advertises themselves as members of this Order and first I wonder if they're separate orders, then I wonder if they're actually one in the same, or even if The Order of Green Men are simply the group/force assigned to guard the God's Eye, while the Order of the Green Hand are the group/force assigned to guard other areas that would've been a part of the Pact geographically.    

Then we have the slight confusion or contradiction around the timeline as the Order of the Green Hand is seemingly based in Andal tradition being a "knightly order" with only the virtuous and strong being offered membership; House Gardener is a First Men House as well as the originators of the Order of the Green Hand, though geographically they're in the Reach where we commonly associate the area with the Andal faith.  House Manderly is said to have always been an Andal House, but also claiming membership within the Order of the Green Hand; this presents an issue from the Maester's timeline or the record.  House Gardener is said to have survived the Andal invasion long enough to have assimilated to some degree with the Faith.  Maybe House Manderly took up the order's reigns when House Gardener fell to Aegon during the conquest, while the Tyrell took up the location of Highgarden (since the Manderly's had been ousted over their feud with the Peakes)?  Anyway, I find it interesting and am looking to see if the theory is given any further substance.  We know that many lords in the North don't like the idea of 'southron ambitions' and here we have one of the best examples of two houses that had ambitions, Gardener is extinct and Manderly 'likely' only survived because of a Northern house in the Starks.  I find this curious and while there may be connection at all, I'm not ready to totally dismiss it yet.

I just think that because CH is associated with both riding an elk like the Green Men did, as well as having some kind of connection to the CoTF as the Green Men did, there's likely an old connection, especially given how we've seen when these beings start being affected by magic and the like they become a hybrid as per the discussion we had in the other thread about Mel and Beric; I think CH may fit in that discussion, like Beric is driven by only the faint memories of his last orders from Ned; CH may be doing the same type of thing.  You also had an old Gardener King consulting with a Wood's Witch, and we conveniently have Maggy the Frog, another Wood's Witch in the current story.  Who's to say they're different people?  It could be that Maggy is the same lady all these centuries or it could be that she's the daughter of daughters for generations, who knows... but the connections are there and I think they mean more than simply being there to be good filler for backstory.  It'd be interesting to maybe look at all First Men houses to see what possible pool of men would be possible members of the Order of Green Men when the Pact was signed.  House Royce and Stark would probably be included in that group.

 

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

I think he real question here is: How did he become what he is? We can only hope to know who he is, after we answered that question. Why is a neither a typical Other nor a typical wight? Did BR make him? Or what happened? If we knew that BR created him, the next question would obviously be: Why use this guy/corpse and not another one? Aren't there enough frozen corpses around? If BR has chosen this one from among all the possible choices, there must be a reason for that.

That said, we don't know any of these things and don't even know if they are important or if we are ever going to get an answer.

[Durran Durrandon]

Oh no doubt, what's interesting is that say if BR is actually warging the Elk, then it allows more possibilities for Coldhands to be someone other than say, a random Brother of the NW who's somehow not quite a wight, but isn't an other either.  I've seen theories that hold that because CH's isn't fully one or the other that his body is being warged by BR.  Then we have to ask how do we explain that given the elements that Varamyr has added to the notion of the spirit being able to take over another host?  In this case we're presented with at least two possibilities; CH's is inhabited by the spirit of a skinchanger, so he isn't affected (necessarily) by any power the Others have over their wights; or that he's being warged by another skinchanger.  That leaves plenty of other options as well, but with Varamyr being able to control multiple animals at once time as a skinchanger, it leaves open the possibility that BR is warging both, but I'd like to believe that's not really the case.

While I fully admit that the evidence is thin, I also find it hard to dismiss the one connection we have with Elks being ridden by characters within the story.  It could just as easily have been a horse that was also wighted/warged if CH himself as a character is not meant to be of any significance historically is one argument I'm leaning toward.  As well, we've had strong backstory reference to the Order of Green Men and to a much lesser extent the Order of the Green Hand.  Now we also have that House Manderly still advertises themselves as members of this Order and first I wonder if they're separate orders, then I wonder if they're actually one in the same, or even if The Order of Green Men are simply the group/force assigned to guard the God's Eye, while the Order of the Green Hand are the group/force assigned to guard other areas that would've been a part of the Pact geographically.    

Then we have the slight confusion or contradiction around the timeline as the Order of the Green Hand is seemingly based in Andal tradition being a "knightly order" with only the virtuous and strong being offered membership; House Gardener is a First Men House as well as the originators of the Order of the Green Hand, though geographically they're in the Reach where we commonly associate the area with the Andal faith.  House Manderly is said to have always been an Andal House, but also claiming membership within the Order of the Green Hand; this presents an issue from the Maester's timeline or the record.  House Gardener is said to have survived the Andal invasion long enough to have assimilated to some degree with the Faith.  Maybe House Manderly took up the order's reigns when House Gardener fell to Aegon during the conquest, while the Tyrell took up the location of Highgarden (since the Manderly's had been ousted over their feud with the Peakes)?  Anyway, I find it interesting and am looking to see if the theory is given any further substance.  We know that many lords in the North don't like the idea of 'southron ambitions' and here we have one of the best examples of two houses that had ambitions, Gardener is extinct and Manderly 'likely' only survived because of a Northern house in the Starks.  I find this curious and while there may be connection at all, I'm not ready to totally dismiss it yet.

I just think that because CH is associated with both riding an elk like the Green Men did, as well as having some kind of connection to the CoTF as the Green Men did, there's likely an old connection, especially given how we've seen when these beings start being affected by magic and the like they become a hybrid as per the discussion we had in the other thread about Mel and Beric; I think CH may fit in that discussion, like Beric is driven by only the faint memories of his last orders from Ned; CH may be doing the same type of thing.  You also had an old Gardener King consulting with a Wood's Witch, and we conveniently have Maggy the Frog, another Wood's Witch in the current story.  Who's to say they're different people?  It could be that Maggy is the same lady all these centuries or it could be that she's the daughter of daughters for generations, who knows... but the connections are there and I think they mean more than simply being there to be good filler for backstory.  It'd be interesting to maybe look at all First Men houses to see what possible pool of men would be possible members of the Order of Green Men when the Pact was signed.  House Royce and Stark would probably be included in that group.

 

So, I agree the elk has significance, but it could simply be ac signal to the reader early on that he is an agent of t h e Children or Three Eyed Crow . That is how Bran reads it at least. If it isc symbolic of v something deeper, I'm not convinced, but to be fair, I'm in the midst of looking back at the prepact First Men material, and I don't think I am as far along as you are.

[Dorian Martell]

I think the clues are few but can't agree that there are none.

Coldhands rides an Elk; who else rode elks?  Green Men rode elks.  Who were the Green Men?  The respective "Wise Men" of the First Men and the CoTF.  The Green Men was an order established to guard the Weirwoods on the Isle of Faces or the God's Eye when The Pact is made.  So, while that doesn't help distinguish who Coldhands is specifically,it does give us a clue as to who he was.  He was 'likely' a Wise Man among the First Men, possibly one of the first Green Seers among Men.  Now there is one issue in that within the Wiki, the Order of the Green Hand is associated with House Gardener, which were originally alleged to be the Kings of The First Men or among the First Men Kings.  Now for several generations House Gardener remained as First Men King(s) but at the outset of the Andal Invasion, Gwayne the IV is said to have sought aid from the CoTF, while Mern III has some interesting association with a Wood's Witch who was said to claim she could summon armies of the dead.  The expected conflict never occurred however as House Gardener eventually adopted a policy of assimilation with the Andals via the Three Sage Kings.  Curiously, The Order of the Green Hand has its origins with House Gardener, but only House Manderly still exists as a known member of that Order and they follow with the Andal Faith of the Seven, but we don't know what purpose the Order of the Green Hand had, or if it relates to the Green Men in any way but it's not out of the realm of possibility that they are related.  So, it could be that Coldhands is related to House Gardener, perhaps even Garth Greenhand himself.   The clues are few, but there are enough to point a certain direction, I don't think anywhere else in the series do we see a reference to men riding Elks except these two examples; the association while narrow, appears to point that way specifically, for a reason.  While whom he is specifically may not be that big an issue to the story proper, it'd be interesting if he is/was in fact one of these fabled heroes of the Dawn Age/Age of Heroes that the maester's claim is all tale and fable.

He does ride an elk. And he wears the uniform of the watch. The elk is not a major clue, save he could have died  before the watch had any andal members. It still says nothing about who he is or how and when he died. There is still only one clue, and that is how he is dressed 

[White Ravens]

Coldhands the meat puppet rides an Elk as he escorts Bran and company north beyond the wall.  But that doesn't mean that he rode an elk as a living man and member of the Night's Watch.  Bloodraven is a skinchanger and the elk is a living, breathing animal with warm blood pulsing through its veins so we can assume that the elk is controlled by Bloodraven.  Someone pointed out up thread that elk are very well adapted to  traveling over land in cold snowy conditions. There is no implied connection between long dead Coldhands and the living elk he rides other than the fact that Bloodraven currently controls both of their actions and needs them to travel together through harsh winter conditions. 

[Impbread]

BR says "they killed him long ago" meaning the whites thus he is 8000 years dead the last time they walked.

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

BR says "they killed him long ago" meaning the whites thus he is 8000 years dead the last time they walked.

Hm, what if he really was a ranger who got lost way too far north? I mean, do we really know that the Others have been inactive for so long? Who is to say they haven't always been active, just much further north?

[Pipewrenched]

Plus, warged or not, how long could his clothes (we use them as a clue) and especially his flesh and what not be expected to last?  

Being we see wights that are just straight up skeletons, makes me wonder that he may have not been dead THAT long...(?)